I wanna know what people come up with on this subject. What engine is stronger and potentially can have more power when all is said and done? A 2.4l TC with the 086 Head, HO intake manifold, w41 Cams, all forged internals, and ARP studs with all the bolt-ons and proper tuning (Which I would like to call the 2.4HO). Or a built up 2.6 Stroker engine? Both with same tranny and in the same year, body style of car just to make it fair? What engie FTW?? Lets hear opinions and hard cold facts from all of your jbo experts!
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
2.6 if you can get traction , and enjoy killing people accross the intersection
2.4 ho , if you like reving to 7000-7500 and road racing
Considering the fact that one person has done the 2.6 stroker so far and no results as of yet than I dont think you can get that good of an answer. And only a few have done the 086 head swap on the 2.4 < As far as who ever got them running right I dont know. You could also consider what skillz has done as a 2.4 High Output. And the 2.4 w/ 086 head swap imo is considered a 2.3 / 2.4 hybrid motor. But to each his own because they are all hybrid interchangable parts anywho. My choice for boost would be the 2.4 liter block and head w/ porting of course , with high output cams , intake manifold and TB. As far as all out N / A power I would think that the stroker would be what you would want. Again simply my opinion. Good luck finding many who have done any of these major mods. Most people just claim they are going to.
Dragracemyz24
a 2.4 HO wont net much more than a 2.3 which is much less work.. better oiling, better timing setup, better bore/stroke ratio IMO for FWD, more high performance parts, and cheaper. For a nice kick in the pants the 2.4 is fine but for 350+ I think HP/$ has the 2.3 on top. until the price and performance of the 2.6 stroker setup is finalized and repeated I can't really compare it to anything else. we have a 2.4HO kinda setup and a 2.3 setup right now in quad-land, and the 2.3 is better in just about every way for FWD (again IMO).
don't be displacement sheep (directed at responces yet to come).. GM chose the 2.0 for a reason, and it wasn't pity.
again when deciding on a motor get a goal im mind. the 2.3 is not always the cheapest/most reliable choice. for all out quad power though, I think it is.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Now I don't want to hear your opinons on street racing because as we all know it is stupid as hell. I'm talking on the track in a controled safe invironment. Lets have no talk of street racing on here please.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
i wasn't really..
but for a quad trailor queen? 2.3 GTU and kellog build all the way! all forged internals with high HP thresholds and designed for high rpm use. if I were to buld a track car right now though, I'd make a s/c eco with a large weber and a distributor running e85... and a small pulley. plus juice. i'd go old school.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
that was a expression
meaning the 2.6 would be better in shorter distances , because of the increase tq , from being stroked larger
the 2.6 will start to build it tq curve at alot lower rpm then a 2.4 or 2.3 would , the 2.3 and ho 2.4 as you suggested will build tq later in the rpm range , and have a higher rpm hp peak , over the 2.6
The Hybrid and stroker are almost identical. The 2.3L block however, has the double roller timing chain, which (although heavier) is stronger.
From what I understand, the stroker requires modification to the mains and relocation of the crank sensor, as well as 2.4L rods and custom oversized 2.4L pistons.
The 2.4 build requires drilling and sleeving the block for the 2.3L oil pump, modifying the oil pan, expanding the 086 water passages, as well as running ridiculously low CR pistons to lower the final CR for ease of tuning higher boost applications.
If I were to do it all over again, I would go with the stroker... especially now that HPT is out and it just seems like less work to do.
Also...
I don't agree with 97trd, although my guestamite is purely speculation. The 2.6 has the same stroke as the 2.4 giving it the same lever arm. More air in the cylinder per stroke should give very similar power and torque curves as a 2.4HO... only higher.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Untill the 2.6 prove that it's worth it to spend the money, 2.3 FTW.
I'd rather have a W41 than a mixed up 2.4. For what you gain from 0.1L it's not worth all the trouble of working on the 2.4 block.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
The highest powered N/A motor on this site is a Miller Performance built 2.4 LD9. No hybrid or stroker has made nearly as much power N/A that i've ever heard of.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:35 PM
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Brian Whalen wrote:The Hybrid and stroker are almost identical. The 2.3L block however, has the double roller timing chain, which (although heavier) is stronger.
From what I understand, the stroker requires modification to the mains and relocation of the crank sensor, as well as 2.4L rods and custom oversized 2.4L pistons.
The 2.4 build requires drilling and sleeving the block for the 2.3L oil pump, modifying the oil pan, expanding the 086 water passages, as well as running ridiculously low CR pistons to lower the final CR for ease of tuning higher boost applications.
If I were to do it all over again, I would go with the stroker... especially now that HPT is out and it just seems like less work to do.
Also...
I don't agree with 97trd, although my guestamite is purely speculation. The 2.6 has the same stroke as the 2.4 giving it the same lever arm. More air in the cylinder per stroke should give very similar power and torque curves as a 2.4HO... only higher.
funny, i dident know my LGO in my GTZ had double roller timing chains.....
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
some of the 2.3's had dual some had single
large bore + short stroke = high rpm motor : example 302 small block 4" bore , 3" stroke
small bore + large stroke = low rpm tq motor : example 383 small block chevy 4.030" bore , 3 3/4"stroke
the 302 was a great high rpm motor , and the 383 is a good low rpm tq motor
the 4" bore was used on the 302 , 327 and 350 chevy's , 302 as above 3" stroke(from the 283) , 327 3 1/4" stroke , 350 3.48" stroke
its the same reason hondas make hgh horse power compaired to their tq output , they have large bore small stroke , so the motor makes better high rpm power , than tq
.... AT that last post i was PLAYING DUMB,
FYI GM stoped using the dual style in mid 90.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
that mean the 91 engine.
Jeremy, the ratio of 2.4 compare to 2.3 is so big that you can't really say that 2.4's are better.
You're speaking of the slowfire right? Todd miracle.
If you just want power and money is growing on trees, the 2.4 can be a good engine but cost wise, the 2.3 is better.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Skilz10179 wrote:The highest powered N/A motor on this site is a Miller Performance built 2.4 LD9. No hybrid or stroker has made nearly as much power N/A that i've ever heard of.
I know it has been talked about before in the past, but isn't Karo's motor (if that is the one you are referring to), a 2.4 block and a 086 head, with a few other 2.3 parts? I could be wrong, been a long time since that post.
FU Tuning
Man, I bet this topic will explode once that 2.6 is out and running. Can't wait to see what you all have to say next.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
im sure once i have REAL numbers to show you guys itll answer your questions...the 2.3 block has a bigger bore than the 2.4 will ever have AND the block is like 90lbs lighter...theres a choice here?
Ok so lets say my 97 Z24 Auto is broke down and I have no clue what is wrong with it. (True story) And I was looking around on autotrader.com and found a 1990 Beretta GTZ with 177k miles on it at a dealership only 66 miles away from me that has the 180hp LGO 2.3HO 5spd in it. Should I: A.) Fix the 2.4 and rebuild it with forged internals then boost it? B.) Just fix what is wrong with the Cavalier pay the rest of it off and use it as a trade in on the GTZ? Just want your opinions on this.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
I've got most of the stuffs for my build (supercharged 2.6L) and I'm slowly going to get mine done.
Scott is not the first to make the stroker, one of the first, but not the first. the Quad guys have been doing it for a while now. The guy he got the parts off of has built a few (too bad he sucks as a business man). All over 300HP N/A (reported, not verified), and all capable of around 700hp with mods (again reported, not verified). there is also a 2.7L racing quad out there, built by the same guy.
The 2.6L uses the same redline as the HO or W41, it wont die at that rpm either. It still makes power in the same way as the 2.3L, just more of it (due to the cams, reported, not verified).
I'm going to boost my 2.6L, and no, I'm not just talking, I really do have a lot invested in this project, and most of the time is being taken by custom parts, since nothing is made to M90 supercharge the quad4 in a J-body (at least nothing that will make decent power).
I've got my fuel mods and spark mods, the supercharger, the block for machining, I'm paying on the 2.4L for the crank, and I'm trying to get pricing on custom pistons and rods, as well as machining (the expensive part).
Z24HO wrote:Ok so lets say my 97 Z24 Auto is broke down and I have no clue what is wrong with it. (True story) And I was looking around on autotrader.com and found a 1990 Beretta GTZ with 177k miles on it at a dealership only 66 miles away from me that has the 180hp LGO 2.3HO 5spd in it. Should I: A.) Fix the 2.4 and rebuild it with forged internals then boost it? B.) Just fix what is wrong with the Cavalier pay the rest of it off and use it as a trade in on the GTZ? Just want your opinions on this.
To be honest, I'd just swap a HO in your J. You have the car already.. why spend more money? GTZ's usually are not cheap.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Yeah they are cheap to buy
After that it all depend on how well maintain you want your Gtz. Once you start racing it you'll spend the money. That car tell you to make it fast. I've spend more money in my Gtz than what I paid for my 02 Z24.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
hmmm, um so your saying that with Cams, TB and Exhaust, and Eprom, it wont be that fast.
damn ill just use it as a dayley driver.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Karo (Car Customs) wrote:John Higgins wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:The highest powered N/A motor on this site is a Miller Performance built 2.4 LD9. No hybrid or stroker has made nearly as much power N/A that i've ever heard of.
I know it has been talked about before in the past, but isn't Karo's motor (if that is the one you are referring to), a 2.4 block and a 086 head, with a few other 2.3 parts? I could be wrong, been a long time since that post.
2.4 Block
2.4 Head
2.4 Crank
2.4 Rods
2.4 Pistons
2.3 HO Cams
2.3 HO Oil Pump
2.3 HO Intake Manifold
Thanks Karo I was not sure it has been soo long.
Quote:
im sure once i have REAL numbers to show you guys itll answer your questions...the 2.3 block has a bigger bore than the 2.4 will ever have AND the block is like 90lbs lighter...theres a choice here?
I do not see how the block is soo much lighter.
FU Tuning
