ive got a 90 pontiac sunbird convertible, with the original 4 banger in it. it runs great, but is gutless when it comes to power. i know that the sunbirds and cavies came out with 2.8s and 3.1s, so the swap should be easy, right? ive done several engine swaps, but never from a four cyl. to a six. and, would it be possible-and don't laugh-to swap in a 3800 GTP engine? just asking.
Yes.... but you may want to check out V6z24.com. They're quite a bit more knowledgeable about the 2nd gen cars.
As far as I know the 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 use the same block castings, thus the same motor mounts, but I'm not sure about the 3.8. I don't know if it's the same block casting or not. But it shouldn't be a problem to drop it in, actually it should be much easier than doing this swap in a 3rd gen. If anything, you might need to change the subframe, provided there's a difference between the one used in the 4cyl and the one in the v6, but if you do, no biggie, it should bolt right up since all the main mounting points would be the same.
ln2johnny wrote:As far as I know the 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 use the same block castings, thus the same motor mounts, but I'm not sure about the 3.8. I don't know if it's the same block casting or not. But it shouldn't be a problem to drop it in, actually it should be much easier than doing this swap in a 3rd gen. If anything, you might need to change the subframe, provided there's a difference between the one used in the 4cyl and the one in the v6, but if you do, no biggie, it should bolt right up since all the main mounting points would be the same.
No
2.8- 3.1 yes same "casting" as far as motor mounts are the same location, (as long as they are transverse motors)
The 3X00 motors have different motor mounts and different castings, as the 3400-3500-3900 have bigger webbing in the block and thicker cly wall to deal with the bigger pistons. Also the 3500-3900's now have variable cam timing.
To answer the question, a 3400 would be the best power for ease of installation. As you could "modify" a 3.1 J-body harness to run it and still get a good 200 WHP
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Ah. I always thought the 3.4 was built on the same casting as well but apparently not. I know the 3.4 quad cam is an entirely different motor but I dind't thin the pushrod variants were that much different. Either way, teh 3400 for sure will fit without too much hassle. I've seen it done by a a handful of guys around here.
yes, but you must make you own motor mounts.
also the 3800\4.3 are 90 degree cyl bank angles, not 60 like the 2.8,3.1, and 3x00 motors
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
3100-3400 60* v6, 3800 90* v6.
swap should be streight forward if you have a v6 donor for the computer, sensors, mounts and other random hard to find parts.
1971 camaro 427 --- here!
Stock... and loving every minute of it.
ln2johnny wrote:Ah. I always thought the 3.4 was built on the same casting as well but apparently not. I know the 3.4 quad cam is an entirely different motor but I dind't thin the pushrod variants were that much different. Either way, teh 3400 for sure will fit without too much hassle. I've seen it done by a a handful of guys around here.
The 3400 has a similar casting to the 3100. Only reason is that you cant bore a 3100 out to a 3400. They have a different block casting for the increased bore. Anything bigger (3500 3900) have a different casting still cuz they have offset cylinder bores. Some 3500's are the same as the 3400 with a bit bigger bore. There are 2 versions of the 3500. One is like the 3400 the other is like the 3900.
The 3.8L is a 90 degree v6. But, it's got the same bellhousing. So it'll mount to a 2.8/3.1/2..2 tranny. In order to use that on a FWD 5spd application you need to get a 3.8L F-body flywheel, and machine that down to the thickness of the 2.8/3.1/2.2 flywheel.
Either way requires custom mounts. That's why i suggested v6z24. They know their 2nd gens, and would be able to tell you all about how to mount either one of those swaps.
or there's the knowledgeable 2nd gen forum here?!?!
member nejbody
Some more info on the v6's
The nomenclature (3.1 vs 3100) changed when they updated the design on the engines. The 2nd generation j-body's used the older motors (the 2.8 and 3.1) The 3x00 series are typically aluminum heads and generally better engines on the power to weight ratio.
The Fiero guys also have a lot of info (www.fiero.nl), they swap the 2.5 4 banger and 2.8 v6 (2.8 in the Fiero is the same as the 2.8 in the Cavalier) for the 3.4 out of the F-body (Camaro/Firebird) all the time. The 3.4, NOT the 3400. It's a drop-in replacement for the 2.8 in the Fiero anyway, so I would assume that it would be the same for the v6s in the 2nd gens. The only thing with the 3.4 from the F-body is that the starter is on the wrong side of the block, so the ear on the other side of the block has to be drilled and tapped for the starter. You can buy a jig to make that easy though.
IMHO, I would use the iron-headed 3.4 from an F-body, and you can dress it with all of the same parts from a V6 2nd gen J-body and you'll have a nice sleeper motor that shouldn't be that bad of a swap.
In your case, since you have a 4 cylinder, I would find a crunched up v6 J-body and a crunched up 3.4 V6 F-body and use all the electronics, mounts and subframe out of the J and the engine from the F (The injectors from the F also) and you should be in really good shape.
You could probably get the 3400 to work, and it would be a really nice motor, but it could be a little bit more challenging.
The 3.8 S/C is going to be kinda hard, although thankfully the tranny bolts up (with the flywheel mod mentioned above), but making the electronics work and physically fitting the engine are going to be more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. That is also a popular swap for Fieros, so you can most likely find a lot of info about it on the Fiero site I mentioned earlier.
www.V6z24.com should be a good reference as mentioned.
http://60degreev6.com/ will have everything you could think of asking about the v6s and their differences.
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Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NO NONONONNNNOOOOOOOOOOO.
The nomenclature (3.1 vs 3100) changed when they updated the design on the engines. The 2nd generation j-body's used the older motors (the 2.8 and 3.1) The 3x00 series are typically aluminum heads and generally better engines on the power to weight ratio."
ALL FWD 2.8\3.1 in J-L-W-N body cars were ALUM heads, diffrence is this, a "D" shaped exhaust port, and better flowing ports\ manafolds.
"The Fiero guys also have a lot of info (www.fiero.nl), they swap the 2.5 4 banger and 2.8 v6 (2.8 in the Fiero is the same as the 2.8 in the Cavalier) for the 3.4 out of the F-body (Camaro/Firebird) all the time. The 3.4, NOT the 3400. It's a drop-in replacement for the 2.8 in the Fiero anyway, so I would assume that it would be the same for the v6s in the 2nd gens. The only thing with the 3.4 from the F-body is that the starter is on the wrong side of the block, so the ear on the other side of the block has to be drilled and tapped for the starter. You can buy a jig to make that easy though."
NO
fiero 2.8 has IRON heads, and streaght valves, the alum have "cantered" valves like a big block chev.
the starter thing, RWD starters are on the oppisit side as the FWD cars.
"The 3.8 S/C is going to be kinda hard, although thankfully the tranny bolts up (with the flywheel mod mentioned above), but making the electronics work and physically fitting the engine are going to be more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. That is also a popular swap for Fieros, so you can most likely find a lot of info about it on the Fiero site I mentioned earlier."
looootttsss of people have done this, ask the experts. IE raven.... and so on.
back to the subject. there is a 60 degree v-6 site that will answer 95% of your questions, thay eaven have cut away pics to show you where you can port the heads out.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
