ok so i got a 2002 sunfire and ive been told by my car buddy that if i can find one and got the money to put a 2.3l into my sunfire.... he said it would fit im just curious wat evry has to say... will it?
you can fit a 2.4 can't you
dimensionally on the outside the 2.4 and the 2.3 are the same and early 3rd gens actually came with the quad4
just remember the 2.4 tb points straight up and the 2.3 tb points sideways toward the air filter area
oh yeah, and several 2.3 and 2.4 parts interchange and believe it or not some of the 2.3 parts are better
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when you beat someone in a civic people wine and make excuses
when you beat someone in a cavalier they pull over and check under thier hoods
normally..i would say go for it
..but you have to know this up front..your gonna have complications..mainly cus you have an automatic...in order to do the 2.3 swap all you would normally need is the 95 Z or GT manual pcm....u see the problem coming???..now,it can still be done..just not as easy...but the good news is itll still bolt up the same
Holy COW!! I've never seen so much mis-information in one shot
There's a bunch of versions of the 2.3L Quad 4... if you're thinking about the Quad 4 HO or W41 (180~190 HP), then it's not a bad swap.... but those are OBD1 engines, and you'd have to swap all the electronics, or run a standalone. As stated (sort of) before me, the HO and W41 were 5-speed manual only.
The regular Quad 4 2.3L that came in the 95 Cavalier and Sunfire was a LO version (though in 95 there wasn't an HO... so it's not really a "version" at all). Horsepower rating is similar to the 2.4L Twin Cam. You could get these in auto or 5 speed. But there's little value in putting one of these in your car... go Eco or 2.4L in a pinch. Why go to a much older engine?
The amount of work you'd need to do to swap a 2.3L HO in... you may as well just do a little more and stick a 3.8 V6 supercharger L67 engine in!!!
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Holy COW!! I've never seen so much mis-information in one shot
Holy cow!...wheres the mis-information?! ....OH yea...HERE IT IS
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The amount of work you'd need to do to swap a 2.3L HO in... you may as well just do a little more and stick a 3.8 V6 supercharger L67 engine in!!!
not even a comparable swap ! the 2.3 will bolt up in his bay..and CAN run on the auto(ive seen it done) but thats his biggest obsticle..the only wiring hed have to do is the pcm and engine bay ......shall we reallyyyyy get into whats involved to do the 3.8 swap??? now,granted the 3.8 IS the better engine( so dont think i was dogging it) but the amount of work involved is No where near the same...
Alright... show me a Quad 4 HO or W41 running an automatic then
if he used a little ingenuity he would not need to rewire anymore than a 2.4 swap would need. great engine, better than a 2.4 in almost every way, but I'd still say go eco. better support as finding certian parts for the quads is getting hard. went down that road, go eco. also its more or less drop in..
if you do wanna go through with the swap just make the engine electronics setup is just like the 2.4l, then run HPT. this is not overly difficult since the engines are very similar. g/l
Lenko does know his ish though
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Actually G Russ, you're exceptionally lucky.... 2002 was a transitional year.... all the late-model engines were available that year.... 2200 2.2L, 2.4L LD9, and the Ecotec..... so swapping in an Ecotec is REALLY easy. You just change the engine, trans, engine bay wiring to the big block by the brake booster, and all the little bits (exhaust downpipe to cat, power steering lines, rad and coolant hoses, etc) and PCM and you're pretty much done. All of the people on here with 95-99 cars aren't so lucky...
Stick with an automatic and you don't have to do any other changes... just find the Ecotec motor and trans. Lots of them around now! Or if you want a bit of a challege, swap to an Ecotec 5 speed and do a bit of welding for the mounts, then swap all the other little bits....
Hmm... starting to crave an Eco swap myself now.... there's loads of support available for them.... even from GM.... hmmm.....
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Alright... show me a Quad 4 HO or W41 running an automatic then
show me someone who WANTS an auto with there HOquad and i will..cus it can be done..there is no reason why it Cant be done...tell me why it cant be done??? ..you guys keep saying that an eco swap would be soooo much better...im still wondering why..i run a quad4 and i havnt been beat by an eco yet that wasnt some good boost..but thats really you only argument isnt it..boost! so heres what it comes down to..ive said it before and ill agree with you on it again..if your going to build an N/A motor with some good power then the quad is your motor...if your hungry for more power or you want to run good boost..then go eco!
Egad.... so you actually have no proof then to back up your claim? You don't even know WHY it can't be done.... LOL
I know plenty of Quad 4 owners running good amounts of boost. It's all in how it's built.
ok, I'll step in.
Yes the Ho can be run with an auto tranny. BUT it has to be running with a 2.4 ecm. The 2.3 ecm doesn't match with the Ho cams(because it's all in the cams). Also John, I know the Ho will not idle with a 2.3 auto tranny.
Yes the Ho will bolt up just the same.
No there's not more wiring to do than an Eco or Ld9 swap.
No it's not an OBDI engine. There's no engine that are OBDI or OBDII. Only the ecm.
So yeah, you could run a 2.4 Ecm/harness and still be "legal".
Yes a quad can take boost better than MOST engine. A stock Ho can take 400hp. Eco fail at ..... way before the Ho.
No the compression is not "too high". That's a myth that high compression can't be boosted.
Ho running with an auto tranny? On a 2.3 auto, no. On a 2.4 with Ho cams yes.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
lol u guys r funny.... i had the idea of the eco for a while but someone suggestd the 2.3 or 2.4........but im sayin screw it and just gettin a automatic eco i dont wana loose boost when i turbo the sucker sooooo thats that.
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Egad.... so you actually have no proof then to back up your claim? You don't even know WHY it can't be done.... LOL
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Yes the Ho can be run with an auto tranny. BUT it has to be running with a 2.4 ecm
feel free to take your foot outta your mouth any time now lenko
Whatever buddy... you still have no proof. If I'm taking my foot outta my mouth, it's going up yer ass!
lets see..2 quad guys say it can be done.And i have to agree with scott and Gilles. Ofcourse it can be done! im still waiting for the reason why it cant aswell.
so.....hows that foot taste by the way haha
Alright, you guys win. I don't have proof that it won't work... but on the same page, none of you have proof of it actually working. So we all suck.
This thread is way off topic now... way to go
Hey, hold up a sec.
How do you mate an auto trans to a 2.3L Quad 4 HO? And make it run? Use a 2.4L PCM? How does that work? The HO cams are way too aggressive for a 2.4L PCM.
Running HO cams on a 2.4L engine (mated to an automatic trans) isn't a Quad 4 HO. It's a Twin Cam with a cam swap.
I'm still technically right here
So screw you
Plus, a 2.4L PCM is OBD2. Where's the sensors for the OBD2? There's a bunch of stuff not on a Quad 4 HO. You going to magically add the sensors? Sounds like a lot of work to me.
BOO YAH EAT ME!
wanna play hard?
What sensor the Ho doesn't have compared to a 96-98 2.4?
Egr and Cam sensor
compared to a 99-2002 2.4?
Cam sensor but the Ho as a knock sensor
Also, OBDI or OBDII DOESN'T MAKE a difference. You can run an Ho ecm on the eco for your information or even a 92 2.2 with a 2.4 Ecm.
The problem with the Ho cams and auto tranny is ONLY the cam. NOT THE ENGINE. So by using the Ho cams with a 2.4 you WILL have the same problem as a 2.3 with an auto tranny. BUT the 2.4 ecm and tranny are better match for the Ho cams. The 2.4 has a 4speed tranny while the 2.3 had a 3speed tranny. Big difference already. Also, the TH-125 the 2.3 had was a POS. It couldn't handle more than the SOHC and barely the Lo.
I HAVE a proof that it does work. Yes I did say I HAVE a proof. It's Speedracerz ( IIRC) that has a 2.4 with Ho cams with auto tranny.
How do you bolt up a TH-125 to an Ho? Well you put the tranny really close to the engine and put the bolts to hold it on. Same way you bolt an Hm 282.
How do you run an ho with a 2.4 ecm? Simple, an ecm is just a computer that read a bunch of sensors. It doesn't know witch engine it's running. It's just reading sensors and adjust the injectors and timming with that and it's preset tables. It could be on any engine and still run the same way. Take it this way: You computer at hoime is the Ecm, the Screen is the engine. Even if you change the screen, the computer will still work the same.
Yes the Ho cams are big for the stock 2.4 ecm. No they are not too agressive. The engine will sound like a V8 at idle. No it won't make power past the 2.4 rev limiter. The stock limiter on a 2.4 is 6500rpm and the peak power of the Ho cams is 6200rpm. So it will be falling by the time you hit the rev limiter.
The 2.4 as a cam sensor yes but if it's unplug it will switch to batch fire like the Ho. So it will still run no problem.
So for now this answer your question. Feel free to ask more. I like being put to the test.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
^^ what he said, and what i have been saying for months, except more detail..
yes it can be done, and HPT makes it an even better option than running the HO computer since you can fine tune and raise the limitter and such easily. also with HPT you can adjust the idle to 1100 or where ever you want it. very doable, but i'd still go eco since the parts are more available. quad4 is a great engine though..
remember running an eco on the 2.4 ecm and harness is not hard either. may take running an msd crank trigger and msd cam sensor sim thing to get it to run sequential but its def possible. the ecu doesnt care about anything cept the inputs its given and on none of them does it say what engine its running.
g/l
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Gilles, I respect you because you do know your stuff... granted, i've never tried it. I don't know anyone who'd WANT a Quad 4 HO hooked up to a 4 speed auto anyways (I know I like my 5 speed now). Ok, so I was wrong. There's still not a single person out there using a Quad 4 HO using an otherwise stock 2.4L PCM to run it... I've looked, here and many other forums.
Until HPT came out... you couldn't do crap... so Jrobz23, you've got a new argument against me
Now that HPT exists (thank doG!), endless things will be possible.
Which leaves good ol' scott... who built your engine for you? You obviously ride on other's work.... because you still never came up with proof on your own. Instead you act like the friends of bullies in grade school, hiding behind the people who do the real work for you. Blah
I would run the Ho on a 4 speed for 1 reason, Bracket racing.
Other than that, nobody will take my Hm 282 from me.
You were both right and wrong. I did look like a kid fight in the school yard
Nobody know everything so don't take it bad.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
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There's still not a single person out there using a Quad 4 HO using an otherwise stock 2.4L PCM to run it.
hey..i dont have a stock 2.4 pcm
i have a chipped 2.3 pcm so no need for hptuners ..but it would still be nice
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Which leaves good ol' scott... who built your engine for you? You obviously ride on other's work..
ACTUALLY good ol josh at www.the-race-shop.com built my engine ..might i add this is my 3rd engine..from stock..to the HO swap i did myself..to this one..i got really tired of bolting on this..modding that, so i finally wized up and just hand picked everything i wanted and got the most qualified person i know to build it
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because you still never came up with proof on your own.
to be honsest with you the only reason i knew it could work is cus certain people were trying to get me to put an auto on my latest engine( not gonna happen ) and i like to argue like i play poker..i wasnt gonna make any real points till you gave me a reason first
..and then theres gilles....gilles,gilles,gilles...the mans an encyclopedia i swear lol ...but its all good lenko
It will be 50$ for the service and taxes
You can see the research fee on page 82 of my encyclopedia.
I'd like to add, my 4 door Z24 is auto cause I couldn't choose but it is fun to drive in traffic.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
