Well, I'm 99.9% sure my Mantapart springs are LS1 stockers. I took some quick measurements (don't have a vice handy) and confirmed that they're only good for about .47" lift. LS6 springs only give about .48", so this must be pretty close (measurements gave about .49" lift for stock 2200 springs, which tested about there, so I know it's pretty close).
Now, I would have to run 1.5 rockers in order to keep these from binding with my cam, which isn't acceptable IMO, since there's clearance everywhere else for over .500" lift (which is what I'm going to have). So, I'm going to be buying some 915 Comp Cams springs to fix my situation.
For someone who wants to run high boost on a stock cam w/ 1.6 rockers (.461" total lift), stock LS1 springs would be perfect to keep the valves from blowing open due to intake and exhaust pressure. But, with any semi-serious cam, they won't cut it. Oh yeah, I've heard LS1 springs from the dealer are something like $2 a piece (Mantapart charged something like $100/set IIRC)
Oh yeah, measurements gave .53" lift clearance on the stock 2.2L springs . So, for anyone looking to build a torque monster, gas saving, NA 2.2L with a high-lift, lower duration cam and a high rocker ratio (to keep the powerband within 6000rpm or so), the stock springs are fine. Just don't try revving them or throwing a load of boost at them.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Is that figuring in the .060"-.100" additional length over coilbind?

I used .040". I've seen some manufacturers reccomend as little as .020", so I just use .040.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Wow, I just read all of that info (from pg 4/5 and I still don't know what's good for a nice moderate build. It looks like I may be taking a trip down to FL to talk some things over at the next FL bash and see whats up.


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

For 2200, you don't really have any options yet



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Stock for the win!

For now I'll just concentrate on the weak points (pistons/rods) since that's what everyone is blowing first when it comes to boost and nitrous (mainly pistons)


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

Tuning first. Then pistons, rods, oil pump.
If you're not planning on high lift, high rpm, or high boost, the stock valvetrain is fine.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

I still think You can use the 2.2L valves and the spring pocket machined out with my spring, lock and retainer set-up, modifying the guide plates, like Hotrod V6 did, and the standard tipped roller rockers will work. Yeah, it would be quite a bit of work, but so far it's the only thing we've come up with for the 2200.

When I took my '94 head to the shop to have the seats taken down as much as possible, they couldn't even get it on the machine because of the angled valves



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Find another shop! If the shop can do SBCs and BBCs, then they can do a 2.2L/2200.

A decent shop should have a mill with an adjustable head and/or floating coupler that connects to the cutter via a guide. It's the same machine as does the valve seats, just using a differnt cutter. The springs are SBC, so the spring seat cutter is a commonly used cutter. As for the angles, If the can do a BBC, which has the canted valves, same as our motors, they can do this motor.

Yeah, Notec, there's something funny there. Canted valves have been around for many, many years. If a guy wants to cut the spring seats, he'll find a way. I've even seen guys set up heads in a Bridgeport to cut spring seats before.

Madjack, I think the springs you've got are close to what I had looked at, no?

->Slow

Lol, well, that was my original inclination. He has been really busy lately, but he had it for 2 months .




fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

If my memory serves me right, yeah they are pretty close.

K-Motion K-700s 1.265" od 462lbs/in. Speced for 120# @ 1.700", but I was going to install them @ 1.730" for a seat pressure of 106 #.

I've put the springs going into this head on hold, since the rockers I currently have won't work with the locks and retainers. That and I've got a line on a head dirt cheap. I'm going to do a more agressive P&P, the +1mm valves, mill the head a little further than this one and go with the Harland Sharp 1.65 rockers. Looks like I'll probably build this head and swap them. It won't be any big gain, but I shouold be able to milk a little more out of this head.

OHV notec wrote:Tuning first. Then pistons, rods, oil pump.
If you're not planning on high lift, high rpm, or high boost, the stock valvetrain is fine.

I have the Hptuner Pro on order as we type

The Crane 1:6 Rollers should be fine for just installing on my stock engine though right? Do you all recomend that or getting a regrind (within the limits of max lift) from Crane?


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

With a regrind you can put the power band where you want it and get more power, but it requires pulling the engine. Be aware of your total valve lift, so you dont exceed the max lift limits. In fact stay a little under as not to stress the springs too much. Check out Cranes master lobe catalog, under the profiles of HR1 and HR3. The HR1s are a little more aggresive profiles, if used with the right lobe centers and lift will work with you PCM. The HR3s are slightly milder, designed for use with a computer controled motor. They are also easier on the valvetrain than the HR1s.

Is the max lift the same on the 2200 as on the 2.2l? I believe I saw .461 posted? So I'm thinking about grabbing the Hr1 regrind, asevent told me this too I believe. And I'll also have HpT on hand to hold back any codes thrown. How much of a problem do you really think that regrind would have on the valvetrain. Is there anything within HpTuners I can use to back off the cam alittle or something to that effect.? Also, I'm starting a little list that'll have alot of info on it. Sorting it out so far in Tuning, Valvetrain, Nitrous, Boost, and Head so far.

THe info about the Oil pump, what was that. Was that for you 2.2l guys or both you and the 2200 guys? And is that pump off the older OHV motor? Year specifc?

Thanks man! I think I may make a trip down there to Florida one day and try and compose a small book of info with you and some others. ttyl!


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

Wow, that was totally not supposed to be a post haha. That was to Madjack!


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:
THe info about the Oil pump, what was that. Was that for you 2.2l guys or both you and the 2200 guys? And is that pump off the older OHV motor? Year specifc?

The 1990-93 engine had a bigger oil pump with the longer gears. Beginning in 1994, a smaller pump with shorter gears was used on the 2.2L. The first pump that was used from 1990-93 came with a deeper housing and longer gears so it pumped more volume than the later, shorter design that was used from 1994 on up. Both pumps are interchangeable, so some rebuilders have standardized on the later pump for everything, even though it has slightly less volume and a lower pressure relief valve (64 lbs. vs 80 lbs.).

^ ^ ^ This is off the NY J-Bodies website under the LN2 history. It also goes into detail about the cams and rockers, although the website does erroneously say a 97 and below cam can be put into a 98 and above LN2.

Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:Is the max lift the same on the 2200 as on the 2.2l? I believe I saw .461 posted?

.480" is about as far as you want to go on both motors with a stock valve train, thought the 2.2L can go higher with the proper springs. The limiting factor on the 2200 is the valve stem seal to valve lock clearance.

Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:So I'm thinking about grabbing the Hr1 regrind, asevent told me this too I believe. And I'll also have HpT on hand to hold back any codes thrown. How much of a problem do you really think that regrind would have on the valvetrain. Is there anything within HpTuners I can use to back off the cam alittle or something to that effect.?

The grind you are reffering to would be the HR-206/313, it's a good grind. The same one OHV notec is using. That would be just fine with the stock vavle train, using the 1.5:1 rockers. With the 1.5s you'll get .470" lift, within limits, with the 1.6s you'ld have .501" lift, too much. As for needing the HPT, you shouldn't need it for any codes, but will help tune the fuel and timing. As for tuning the cam with HPT you can't. If you want to adjust the cam phasing requirwe the '82 timing set and getting it(and the cam) modified for the newer roller cam, using SBC offset bushings and cam dowel. You should be fine installing the cam straight up, Cranes been really good about the phasing of the cam. Now if the timing set you use is accurate? BTW, when installing the cam I reccomend a new timing set, especially the tensioner.

Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:Also, I'm starting a little list that'll have alot of info on it. Sorting it out so far in Tuning, Valvetrain, Nitrous, Boost, and Head so far.

That's the best way to do it, ]Have a plan, for what works, and know where you're going with it. Me, I had a plan when I started, but have since found better things and I'm experimenting with more, at everyone elses benifit.

Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:THe info about the Oil pump, what was that. Was that for you 2.2l guys or both you and the 2200 guys? And is that pump off the older OHV motor? Year specifc?

Both motors. It's the '93 & older pump. It has a slight bit more volume and higher pressure. Much better than the '94+ pump, but not as high as the high volume pumps(such as the Melling). The HVs put too much strain on the pump gears and timing set and rob more power. The older pump supplies sufficiant oil for hi-perfomance
and moderate racing use and enough pressure to help keep the lifters from colapsing under higher loads and rpm. The LT1 lifter spring conversion is better suited to more radical cams.

Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:Thanks man! I think I may make a trip down there to Florida one day and try and compose a small book of info with you and some others. ttyl!

Come on down, I'll be glad to help any way I can.

OHV notec wrote:measurements gave .53" lift clearance on the stock 2.2L springs

MadJack wrote:thought the 2.2L can go higher with the proper springs.

2.2L can go higher with stock springs

allowable lift (.060" safety)_________2.2L______2200
springs:______________________________.510"_____.477"
retainer to seal:_____________________.520"_____.490"

Now, if only I can get a head to flow above .500" lift....



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

So I have read through this whole thread and am still a little confused on which springs, locks and retainers to use on the 2.2. If I read this right you went with the KMO-K-700 springs, KMO-K-7500 retainers, and the Manley 13171-8 (-.050 10* 7mm) locks. Lots of great info in this thread guys, I have learned alot from this as im still new to the ln2. Keep up the good work

Daniel, that is correct, that is the combo I have set up. Remember, though, You'll have to shim the springs for the seat pressure you want to use. The rated installed pressure is 120# @ 1.70", I'm going with an installed set-up of 106# @ 1.730". For my setup, I'll need to shim my springs .075" to get to my installed hight. You best bet is to measure(or have measured) the installed hight for the proper seat pressure.
On this setup, you can use the stock rockers(not reccommended, but possible) or you can use any of the standard tipped, narrow bodied, roller rockers. I would reccomend you use some one piece chrome-moly 3/8" diameter pushrods. The stock pushrod length is 7.406", but check to see if this is the proper lengh. (see my link in the Rocker Arm thread, just posted today) I also reccomend you check to make sure you have good lifters and get the '93 & older oil pump. The pump will help support the added pressure on the lifter plunger spring.

I am starting to pice together my build so im just making a parts list and reading all I can so im prepared when the time comes. I have new oem lifters, still need to get a cam though. I need to get new rockers now(I bought the pro-forms before I read this ). Gonna pick up some of the trickflow push rods also. Again, thanks for all the help guys.

Note my TrickFlow pushrods are 5/16", not 3/8" dia. and I'm using the self-alighning rockers w/o guide plates. These rockers won't work with the spring, lock and retainer combo. To use the combo, you must use the standard tipped, narrow bodied rockers, 3/8" pushrods and the guide plates(modified if using 1.6 or 1.65 rockers). Just tring to make sure you get the right parts before hand, I wouldn't want you to get confused and get the wrong parts then have you say "but you said..."!

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I was gonna order them soon. If I buy a part, its my own mistake for not double checking first. Measure twice cut once. Also, how do you go about determining what seat presure you should run?