on my 02 cavi with the 2200 i just put my P&P cyl head on which is also shaved 10 thou, with a NA MHG and head studs i thought i would have atleast gained 5-10 HP " also have pace setter header, CAI" but it seems to not have gained hardly anything at all, do i need to get a bigger TB>>? or what>? i talked to a gm rep tonight and he seemed to think that the reason i didnt gain much is because the software in the computer wont really alow it to, he told the to get a S/C and the reflash to make it come alive, but isnt there an easyer way, maybe get the S/C reflash on my N/A motor? would that even work? im kind of dissapointed all i have now is the same output and a heat soak problem!!!! im not very happy, please help me out here.
they dont make the reflash for the 2200......and it will only work for the supercharger or turbo.
try getting hptuners and changin the settings
*************Yea i spell liek wrong get over it*****************
** If i write in caps its cause im @ work and i can only write in caps cause the keyboard is a retarded CAPS only keyboard.**
i went to hptuners website, couldnt find any thing for a cavilier 2200, can you steer me in the right direction.? any idea on how much more money i am going to have to dump into my car to see the results i was expecting? how much are the tuners?
Read the FAQ Shifted wrote above this forum about HPTuners. It says this:
What J-Bodies do they support?
97-05 Chevy Cavalier LN2, LD9, L61 (2.2/2200/2.4/Eco)
97-05 Pontiac Sunfire LN2, LD9, L61 (2.2/2200/2.4/Eco)
As for the price? I don't really know. Check out this site though.
http://www.hptuners.com/order.php
you are lookin @ 500 for the basic
and 650 for the pro
*************Yea i spell liek wrong get over it*****************
** If i write in caps its cause im @ work and i can only write in caps cause the keyboard is a retarded CAPS only keyboard.**
(listening) and planning on getting a PnP head for my 2200. I will also be getting new, rods, valves, roller rockers, and springs
so where's the dyno showing that you didn't make any power? seat of the pants isn't going to tell you anything but lies... did you go to the track before? how about now?
first off, do you have a 2200 OHV or a 2.2L ecotec? Because i'd laugh my ass off if a gm rep told you to use an ecotec s/c reflash on an OHV.
The ohv typically puts down 95 or so whp in stock trim.... The Flying Squirrel's 2200 made 115 to the wheels with a PnP head, header, full exhaust, intake. More timing advance and maybe a little more fuel would have probably gotten it up to 120, MAYBE 125.... the 2200 simply is not an engine that likes simple bolt-ons. And it would also seem that the real way to unlock the N/A hp from a 2200 OHV is with a custom cam and higher compression (milling the head .010 just isn't enough for a real difference). Teh Jeffie's 2200 auto made 149 whp with 10:1 compression and a ported head, with stock rockers and stock cam.... and no computer tuning. Scrufdog's 2.2 made 170 whp with ported head, cam, increased compression, and a ported stock exhaust manifold.... i don't know what if any ecu tuning was done. Scruf's was also an auto, so less to the wheels than a similarly modded manual OHV.
The pnp head is a good start but you're still being restricted by a conservative cam and the stock rockers probably aren't helping either. The 2200 just isn't like a honda motor where you can throw stuff on and go unfortunately. HPTuners is a worthwhile mod, but your setup can only be tuned so much at this point.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
well im thinking about throwing nitrous at my car, thats the easyest way to make the power i want, but i dont feel like rebuilding my motor afterwards! i am wondering if i get some 1:7 roller rockers will they help? maybe more lift will help lean it out a bit? if so where should i get them from>? i was also thinking about getting an SAFC over the hp tuners, just because its alot cheaper for me, i would like the hptuners one but i would need some help tuning it.
corey and casey, PLEASE go through the 2.2L / 2200 posts (power record, rockers, springs, LS1 rockers, etc) and do some reading before throwing your money into things you think may work...because they won't. Many of the things you've listed either won't work together at all, or won't work together well (ie, there's a more efficient way)
1)There are no 1.7:1 narrow-bodied rockers (AFAIK...)
2)putting in new rods on old pistons is insane
3)HPTuners only helps with with fairly heavy modifications
4)a shaved head + thin headgasket + non-adjustable rockers + stock length pushrods = poor valvetrain geometry and possibly collapsed lifters.
5)as of right now, there is no known (other than Mantapart) spring/roller fulcrum rocker combination that will fit the 2200, and I doubt you're having custom valves cut to remedy the problem...
Corey, who ported the head? Also, a cam regrind would give you the power you're missing.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
HUH? your telling me that the work that i have done to my car and have been driving it for 3 thousand miles now isnt any good>? i deffinately havent had a lifter collapse, and my car seems to run a little better than b4, so what should i do>? get the rockers from mantapart? pull the head back off so i can pull the lifters and get my cam re-ground>? thats crazy, theres has to be another way.... maybe i will just start with adding a larger throttle body and a full exhaust.
port and polish is more an efficiency mod, unless you do a large n/a build.
na METAL HEAD GASKET??? i assume that stands for.... not a power gainer....
shaved 10 thousands..... even if you shaved it 30 Kths shaving heads is not a mass power gainer.
increasing spark, advancing timing, more fuel, and more air in a combo creates power.
you added small pieces to a puzzle, but no meat and potatoes. put it this way.... so far everything you added....at a gym, would be like doing wrist curls...
deadlifts, olympic lifts, squats, and presses....the meat and potatoes is how you build power and strength. such as those things that will increase in the fuel, air, and spark mods.
Are you planing any boost? If not, then why did you get it PnP? You will get very noticable gains if you give it some psi.
dan
okay. well the NA headgasket is 20 thou thinner if i remember right, and how should i go about adding more spark and advancing>? MSD dis 2>? for more fuel i am trying to figure out how i am going to put an adj fuel pressure regulator on it, has anyone done it on a 2200 and how? i thought the port and polish would help with the air flow, along with shaving the head and thinner headgasket would allow more lift for the valves, any suggestions on where i should go now would be appriciated.
did they do a valve job when they shaved the head? were the valve seats sucked in? if you have them do a valve job on a head that has sucked in or worn seats. the head will flow worse. because the valve is in the pocket 50-60 thou more than it needs to be. shrouding the valve hurting flow and combustion chamber swirl.
see ya!
header,intake,engine mounts,exhaust..tb do you have any of these done as well..cause sounds liek you dont. You need to get air in and exhaust out to make the powr i have notcied good gains with those things. If the head is ported and all that im sure youd get a good set of pants feel with that done..just my .02 tho..phil
corey foss wrote:HUH? your telling me that the work that i have done to my car and have been driving it for 3 thousand miles now isnt any good>? i deffinately havent had a lifter collapse, and my car seems to run a little better than b4, so what should i do>? get the rockers from mantapart? pull the head back off so i can pull the lifters and get my cam re-ground>? thats crazy, theres has to be another way.... maybe i will just start with adding a larger throttle body and a full exhaust.
I'm saying it would be a good idea to stay away from redline if possible, because your system isn't the most stable right now. Also, Mantapart has the springs not the rockers (they sell the POS Comp Cams Magnum rockers...a downgrade for a 2200).
Step #1) Check MadJack's rocker thread for info on studs and rockers for your engine, this will give you more lift if wanted, a more accurate ratio, and the ability to adjust your valvetrain.
Step #2)FULL exhaust...I figured you would have had this before getting a p&p'ed head...you can also add a 56mm TB off a 2.3L DOHC if you want, but don't go any bigger w/o boost.
Step #3, Event's 'meat & potatos') Have Crane regrind your cam. You do not need to take off your head for this, just take off your valvecover, pull the pushrods, and use magnets to hold the lifters up.
Who ported your head?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Stop asking the JBO for help and go to a dyno. Then you will see where you're really in need of help.
I was on the idea of doing all this work to the 2200 as well but in the end its just not a motor that wants to work with you ( or the mods ) ie phlatcav, PJ, for example went eco. for all the money your putting into it, save and get a stock 2.2 eco motor, which will respond much better to these mods your doing to this. i recently put together a dyno day in CT, one guy had headerback, intake, and mm, and put 98 to the wheels. One guy had stock eco motor with bolt on turbo kit, no exhaust just whatever came with the turbo kit and a fuel pressure regulator, and put 247 to the wheels, but even in stock trim the eco puts 118 to the ground. your already doing better. just some food for thought.
meaning his car is a 2002. i agree with the swap i guess. but what about us 99-98 2200 people... we really dont have any options.
eco in stock trim puts 118 to the ground? boosted he threw down 247...
2200 in stock trim throws down about 88-92 and boosted, plenty have shown around 220...
so basically doing an engine swap will garnish you about 20 hp difference. in my view thats a kinda negligible gain.
most people who dont know the basics about suck squish bang blow, prob arent gonna be swapping engines without paying someone. and unless you are in it for the pure hobby alone, you might as well have bought a car with said engine, or a faster car.
any motor will work with you if done right....however many are just rushing through things, doing a small mod here, and little mod there, not doing any basics and hoping for "mad power, yo!" keep in mind some of the allegedly crappiest motors of all time such as the 95-99 neon motors have been made to large power and reliable.
hp numbers are cool if you do nothing but dyno your car, its kinda like me measuring my arms and saying, oh well they are 21 inches now....
however outside of trying to impress someone, numericals dont mean much....especially not as much the actual function of my arms or how you use your car. having muscles doesnt mean you are strong or powerful. its like seeing some of cars today with 200+ hp, and having them be slower than you normal hatchback... well outside making a sig on it, what do you do? do you race it? just a weekend fun car? have a goal and work towards it, dont shoot blindly and hope you land on a goal that will impress....thats when you waste money.
and also adding more power like turbos and such, people have produced some impressive numbers, but what about longevity? when you add more power, you kinda shorten life. and not many boosted cars i have seen local have been problemLESS. NJhondakilla, had some issues....rodimus prime has issues from time to time. dude from glen dirty had some issues, theres 2 guys in regionals selling boosted parts or said car alone. granted most are working through em, it can still damper your happiness and confidence at times..
point being are you prepared to deal with the headaches of what can and prob will possibly go wrong when boosted.
overall, response from mods is all percentage wise really....
ecotecs will produce a higher gain number, but then again the parts cost more as well, in the head alone you need pretty much 2 of everything you have in a 2200.
a 10hp gain for example on cams in an eco will cost around 350-400$ for cams....
the same in a 2200 will cost around 220$
carcustoms sells ecotec valves 1mm oversized at 200$
http://www.carcustoms.net/product_info.php?cPath=265_22_32_597&products_id=281
the also sell the 2200 valves 1mm oversized at 100$
http://www.carcustoms.net/product_info.php?cPath=265_22_32_596&products_id=429
point being....going to an ecotec can be done in any year 3rd gen, however just cause you have en ecotec doesnt mean an amazing power gain over another engine. Sure the ecotec has all this amazing POTENTIAL, but most engines do.... and if you are complaining about money now, then its VERY unlikely you are gonna shell money in the ecotec either.....20hp extra to start with cool, but are you prepared to shell out near double for the parts that you plan to add afterwards?
event you still keep bringing me into light about the 2200 advantages... thank you...
[quote=DrÃkÉ]meaning his car is a 2002. i agree with the swap i guess. but what about us 99-98 2200 people... we really dont have any options.Don't forget about the 2.4L TC motor. Or the 2.3L HO.
yes swap a 2.4 then have more problems than you do from the 2200..
ive seen 2 many people have 2 many problems with there 2.4... so i try to stay shy from them
Carbon Cavi wrote:ie phlatcav, PJ, for example went eco.
And they would both probably still have 2200s if it wasn't for JBP+Crane=no good.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
