OK guys now that we know HP Tuners is here and delivered, its time to plan out the build. The plan is a boosted Eco with HPT. Low boost at first then up it with built internals.. blah blah blah same story
anyway, what i wanna know are some things about the swap. I wanna use a 97-99 Z24 5-speed as a donor. i wanna get the process right, and documented, so it can be duplicated. I DO NOT want to swap any wiring, bcm, pcm, injectors, gas lines or the like. here are my plans (and possible q's) on how to do so.
1) Eco uses similar engine mounting setup as the TC. I figure RK top and bottom mounts should be fine.
2) Use a MSD cam sync generator (still untested on 2.4's iirc) to remove the cam sensor altogether from the 2.4
3) Use a hahn eco manifold *drools* with a 2.4 TB (have to talk to them about this but i dont see an issue)
4) swap to a F23 from eco w/ assorted mounting issues and cables/shifter
5) use the 2.4TC style injectors and fuel lines/rail (totally not sure on this one, fitment etc)
6) run an msd box with wires for spark
beyond this, i would need to get the others things working. knock sensor (maybe retap?), oil pressure, crank position sensor and the like. a problem i forsee in my plan is the fuel setup, and maybe the crank sensor. for fuel i think at i may have to use the eco rail and some low ohm injectors that fit. hopefuly browns or some other high flow ones will.
i think the output of this thread (and project) can help a great many people. HPT can make the swap much easier for us if we let it and more of an option for people. please keep the "why would you want to swap an eco... 140 HP... blah blah blah" bs answers out, ty.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
so you want to run the eco off of the 2.4 program?
sounds intresting?.
i just swapped everything over and have a complete eco swap
*************Yea i spell liek wrong get over it*****************
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1. The Eco top mount is completely different than the 2.4/LN2 mount.
2. Not sure
3. Eco TB is larger than the LD9 TB I think.
4. ...
5. I don't think you'll have luck there, the injector spacing on the eco doesn't match the LD9. I don't think it'll even bolt up, the FPR on the Eco isn't even mounted to the rail.
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snows : yup thats the plan..
shifted is where it bolts to the body different? if i use an eco top mount from RK will it bolt to the body? i was under the impression that it did..
id prolly use an aftermarket 2.4 TB (maybe 59 or 62mm) just for simplicity with sensors
i didnt know about the fuel rail spacing. thanks for the info! i dont think its gonna be that hard to adapt the 2.4 hard lines to the eco rail. gotta find low imp injectors that fit..
also how about the other stuff? anyone know the thread and such for the knock sensors? isnt one 2 wire and the other 1 wire? also the crank sensor has me worried.. not sure on the connector or advance and such..
TY guys for the comments. keep em coming!
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
actually snowman, i wanted to use a saab 2.0T and follow your directions..
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Shifted wrote:1. The Eco top mount is completely different than the 2.4/LN2 mount.
2. Not sure
3. Eco TB is larger than the LD9 TB I think.
4. ...
5. I don't think you'll have luck there, the injector spacing on the eco doesn't match the LD9. I don't think it'll even bolt up, the FPR on the Eco isn't even mounted to the rail.
Yes they are different, but you can use either mount on either engine. I have put a 2.4 upper mount on a Ecotec it worked. It did sit lower, but worked.
As stated the Ecote TB is larger stock than a 2.4.
Next why??? It is fine that you want a ecotec motor for boost, but why not do the swap correctly?? You are asking for way more trouble and pain in the rear than needed. You will probably spend more money trying to make 2.4 wiring work on a ecotec, if you can even get it to work. I have done a couple ecotec swaps, and this just seems so pointless.
FU Tuning
John, the swap it all method seems more swap work less prep.. this method is more prep less swap work. basically like a bolt in motor replacement (also future motor mobility, and dont underestimate that) if the plan goes right. also, the big dollar parts are ones id purchase eventually anyway (msd, IM). the biggest pita for me would be the trans mount. i dont weld.. i do know a welder but he lives 20 mi away. i also dont want to mess with wiring or ripping out the dash or the like. also space to do the swap is a big factor.. this would require space for 2 cars.. id have to rent space and that could greatly increase costs.
keep in mind this is also a probe as to how the project would work out, estimates of the costs and time. also to get you guys thinking. youre smart! and smart people thinking is a good thing
people on here always say have a plan, know what you want. and, well, im trying to do that.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Jrobz23 wrote:this would require space for 2 cars..
this method would not! sorry for the typo
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
thanks shifted btw! i may need em!
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
if this is your plan... and you don't want to do any wiring... i'd say do a rebuild on the 2.4, and turbo that with the HPT software.
No one has done what you are suggesting, so if you don't have the resources/skills to conquer any of the myriad of problems that could arise, then the answer is a plain and simple "don't do it".
While its entirely feasible that with the ability to completely rewrite the ecu you COULD run an eco off of a 2.4 ecu with HPT, its the differences in sensors and hardware that will get you in the end. Doesn't the eco use a completely different crank trigger wheel and ignition hardware than the 2.4?
If you're that terrified of wiring and the electrical stuff (understandably so, i wouldn't want to do a lot of it either"... stick with the 2.4. Its still plenty enough motor to put down more than a street car could really put to use anyway, and parts are cheap and plentiful since the engine has been out in some form or another for the last 10+ years.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
guys its not that im terrfied of the wiring part. the thing is i KNOW roughly about what it takes to get the full swap like john and snow did. im comparing $$ and options here. follow me..
keep in mind body in good shape :
price of 97-99 Z with dead engine or trans + swap (not hard to find btw)
price of 00+ Z with dead engine/trans + swap (very hard to find)
price of 02 eco J, dont like the 03+ (no swap needed)
im getting an idea of what all 3 will cost. im digging the swap idea for sheer learning. the total costs (less mods that will be shared, msd, IM etc) are whats in question here. im trying to look at many differnt angles of the end goal and try to pick the method that suits me best.
also Scarab.. not sure if you remember my old setup. 97 Z, 2.3 HO, nvg, torsen dif.. i didnt like where the quad platform took me, perf/$ and options past 300-350HP. with HPT thats better now but still. looking at the eco roadmap for performance and options along the way, i think its an easy answer. not sure whether ill reach that high but looking at making a proper plan to achieve them none the less.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
the crank is one of my main concerns.. and can shift the project one way or the other. keep in mind this type of setup is only sensible if you keep as many 2.4 sensors and things as possible. Scarab you could VERY well be correct that this may all be fubar but id like to actually look into it as it may be a cheap and viable option. if im totally whack then, ok, nothing new LOL. this is just been floating in my ead for a while and now that HPT has come out i want o follow up on it. ty for the input guys! much appreciated!
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
more thoughts :
97-99 dead Z : $600-800
00-02 dead Z : ? maybe 1000ish never seen one
stock 02 Black LS Sport 5-speed : $8k-10k
the swap has to be less than the amount extra it costs to buy the car..
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Jrobz: You say you dont want to mess with wiring correct? No offense but to be honest. The wiring of a 2.4 compared to an eco might be a little different. I am not completely sure on this but if your not wanting to mess with the wiring it would be easier to swap in the proper wiring. Your going to have to mess with the wiring if you dont do the swap. If we can get suncavi up in here, he kept his stock wiring from his car instead of going with the donor wiring. From what I remember when we used to talk on aol (Just recollection so dont quote me 100% on this) He had the Biggest PITA cutting and splicing the wires to make the fuel system work on the eco. When I wrote the Swap faq way back then, I studied the Eco before I decided to get ballsy and do the swap. I checked out eco cars at my work compared to mine, saw all the differences and went the easiest route I could possibly go to cause me the least amount of headaches.
I give you props & respect for what you are wanting to do but nobody has done this and it is something your going to have to try on your own for the most part. For US guys who have done the swap, we have simply given you an easy way to do it (although no motor swap is easy you will run into problems, using the proper stuff will make it the easiest possible swap). Us 95-99 guys are not like the 00-02 non eco guys. Since they're cars already have all the newly updated equipment all then need is the ECU, Motor, Engine Harness, & possibly the BCM.
I have a feeling that if you go with the 2.4 wiring you will need a diagram of the 2.4 wiring throughout the car, and also an eco wiring diagram for the whole car. Many wires might be the same but then again, I bet alot are not. I am in no way bashing you at all. Just want you to see what you could be going up against.
I hope you do succeed. That would be nice. keep in mind. My donor car wrecked / crushed pass side fender (no wiring damage with everything intact and not broken that was needed for the swap my car ran me 900 to complete. Everyones varies but you see how cheap it can be ?
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2.2 Ecotec Swap Completed!!!
i have tha inside wiring if you need them
Some more info on this. The Ecotec ing is different than the 2.4. You really will end up needing to rewire from the 2.4 wiring to the ecotec motor (more wiring issues than doing the swap, and time). You can get away with no swaping the fuel tank (I think Suncavi did not, and fuel lines, but there is a plus to the newer style tank, plastic, newer, and should be a little less weight, plan to verify this really soon for everyone).
You say you do not want to deal with re-wiring the car. Well truly if you get the wiring out of the car (Ecotec car), all you have to do it plug and play (yes you will have to remove the dash, and carpet etc....), but it is plug and play. As stated Suncavi kept his inside wiring, but had to splice a few things, you will be splicing much more. When I stated more money to do it this way I meant money in the time of the wiring issues. Also I do not think a 2.4 TB will bolt onto the ecotec (but I will find out for you we have a Ecotec and some 2.4's so I will see. I think splicing the ecotec TB sensors into the 2.4 harness would be better. I still think the ignition is going to be one of the biggest issues. I belive the knock sensors are the same design. You can find a wreck ecotec car for any where from 600-1200. You could get a dead 95-99 J for 200-700. Swap over everything and go. The hardest wiring issues to do a Ecotec in a pre 2000 car (Our way) is the headlights and once you haver swapped everything over it still is not that big of a deal.
FU Tuning
...
why not just build a LD-9 for boost?
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
after adding up the costs and time.. looks like a dead 00-02 is the way to go. its just not gonna be easy to find one with a decent body. interesting though but i dont think it will pan out as worth it..
ty everyone for your thoughts!
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
