I've been contemplating installing a plenum spacer on my 2.2L and doing some track testing with and without it. My point is to test the effects on the power band, the results will be published later. Probably won't amount to much, but I'm still going to give it a try.

A friend of mine owns a Machine and Tool Shop with a CNC Machine and can make the spacers, but to make the intitial one would cost too much for a simple test piece. I'm trying to guage the interest of those who might be interested in getting one. This is primarilly directed to those with the Top Feed Injector conversion. The more I can get made, the cheaper it will be for all. The spacer will be made of 1/2" thick aluminum and matched to the Fel-Pro gaskets inside dimensions and will include the Trottle Cable Bracket Spacer. I am also looking at making a complete top feed conversion kit(spacers, gaskets, injector bungs, maybe even the fuel rail and injector harness), you supply your own intake runners and injectors, possibly the runners already preped, depending on the availability of the nesassary parts. This will all depend on the amount of serious interest. If your interested, please post.

Go for it Jack......



wait for it... wait for it... NOW GO!! ---> '02 LS Sport <---
Yahoo IM : buzz122 AIM : buzz122cav

I've got plenum spacer plans already at the shop (not really plans, but he has the gasket to match), I've just been trying to figure out how thick to make it. I've also tossed around the idea of velocity stacks in the plenum to increase runner length, but I haven't done enough calculations to know if it would help or hinder yet.

Is the conversion you're planning supposed to retrofit the stock IM? I'm kind of hazy on what you're describing. I would be interested.

^^^^^^^^^ 1" spacer works nice. Emry a guy on here with a top feed conversion on his 2.2 1997, said it works great, felt a TRUE power gain from the 1" spacer he got made for him. I think it's a GREAT Idea.

Lee




JDM Civic Hatch
Status: Parting Out Turbo Kit....
14.224 @ 102.01MPH @ 5.5psi.... 2.3 60'
Next: Civic JDM B16a2 w/GSR LSD Turbo - Goal 300whp 1400lbs...

Yes, it's for a retro fit for the stock mani, internally matched to the plenum gasket. My plan is for increased plenum volume, which helps the upper rpms. With the rod-to-stroke ratio (1.6:1) makes very responsive flow at low lift values and lower rpms. You can supposedly increase intake volume(ports, valve size, runner width and intake plenum) to increase the upper rpms without having a greatly adverse affect on the lower rpms.

The most expensive part of making it is getting the design programed into the CNC mill. It runs $75/hour, whether programing or machining and setting up the block. once everything is programed, it wont take half an hour for the full process, but the cost of programing would be distributed over the cost of all the spacers made. As an example of costs, he was going to make a bird cage for his rear axle on his dirt late model, but it would have cost him about $400 more for him to make one that to buy one!

The shop owner is also looking at going into machining plastics, so there might even be a plastic and/or phenolic resin spacer. He is also looking into casting small aluminum components.

I'm also looking into longer runners. Might try grafting two runner sections into one. With the longer runners, I might have to do away with the spacer and/or the front STB to make the length of the runners long enough. Either way, you would definitely need to have the polyurethane motor mounts.

I've recommended a spacer to a couple of people. What are the inside dimensions of the plenum? Maybe 8" X 3"? So a 1" spacer would add 24 cubes to the volume? That might make a difference on an NA engine. For a real change, shortening the runners to complement a cam might be helpful.

If I can ever get recovered (5th week out, back still bad) I'll get back to my top feed conversion. But I can't make any commitments to spending cash at this point. Gotta save all I can until I get back to work.

-->Slow

They are a good thing, and i did experience some huge gains with it. I didnt have dyno results, but between the topfeed and the spacer, i could feel huge gains. My spacers are designed for the felpro gaskets, and i offered them in a kit awhile back. I have the spacers made in 3/8" 1/2" 3/4" and 1". The edges are bevelled to cradle the felpro gasket. Heres some pictures. The design and demensions do have a patent on them. If you need the patent number just PM me. heres some pics .







96 Camaro A4 383 12.5:1, E85, Full suspension, Nitrous outlet plate kit, hooker headers and catback, 3800 circle D converter.

2002 Silverado LQ4 6.0 CAI, Long tube headers, 4" exhaust

1996 s10- 97 ECU and wiring, soon to be boosted daily driver.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thats a good thing,

does that mean if they want the patent #, they pay you for it, and the CNC place should be able to get the exact demensions for it so they can get theres made ???

Lee




JDM Civic Hatch
Status: Parting Out Turbo Kit....
14.224 @ 102.01MPH @ 5.5psi.... 2.3 60'
Next: Civic JDM B16a2 w/GSR LSD Turbo - Goal 300whp 1400lbs...

In a way. I have the programs already written for cnc. and now i am working on a spacers that uses an o-ring instead of a gasket...any ?'s just ask.

Emry

96 Camaro A4 383 12.5:1, E85, Full suspension, Nitrous outlet plate kit, hooker headers and catback, 3800 circle D converter.

2002 Silverado LQ4 6.0 CAI, Long tube headers, 4" exhaust

1996 s10- 97 ECU and wiring, soon to be boosted daily driver.

Actually the inside dimensions are Approximately 12.5" x2.5"(measured quickly with a wooden ruler) or 31.25 Square in., minus the curved corners and bolt hole bosses, rounded down to 30 sq in., so a 1/2" spacer would add approximatley 15 c.i.. That would be a fairly sizable increase in itself, enough so to notice any change to the rpm band.

Yeah, 15 sq" is a fair amount. I've played with plenum sizing on NA 8 cyl engines. I've tried volumes from 1.2 engine displacement to 1.5 X engine displacement. The plenum really acts as areservoir to draw air from. The flow of air into a cylinder isn't steady. Depending on cam grind, crank stroke, and rod length, the demand for airflow can get very high at times, then it drops, and will get very high as the next intake stroke begins. The flow of air through the TB is dampened somewhat. Some of the damping is due to inertial properties of air, some can be due to the size of the TB. So while the average flow through the TB can be enough for the engine, instantaneous flow may not be able to change fast enough to completely meet the demand of the cylinder. Add to this the time required for air to tunr corners, flow around ubstructions, and the effects of pressure waves and you can really turn a mass of incoming air into a writhing, bouncing mess. A larger plenum smoothes these effects.

In my experience, the plenum size does not usually change the rpm for best power, but it will allow a slightly starved cam to make power in the rpm it really wants to be at. Putting larger plenum and stock or mild cam together can net no gains whatsoever. This is definitely different from, say, changing runner length, as you can see a real change with even a stock cam if you make changes there.

There is the special case of the Helmholtz resonator, which is a way to tune using pressure waves generated inside the intake manifold. Basically you connect a chamber to the manifold with calculated dimensions to harness the frequency of the pressure waves to help in ram tuning. When done right this can have a real effect on power at the desired rpm. I have an engineer friend that built one but it didn't seem to make a noticeable difference on the car it was tested on. 'Course butt dynos aren't too accurate, and he wasn't familiar enough with a manual trans to get good launches at the track, so I can't say for certain it didn't make a difference. Still, for the work it took, I would have wanted real "kick in the pants" improvements.

Moving the TB to the top of the plenum would probably net some good gains. Building a twin TB with one TB centered over 1 & 2 runners and another over 3 &4 might make some big improvements without undisirable distribution issues with the two outermost cylinders. Things hafta improbe when you remove the 90 degree bends in the air path. Then you can put a flat airbox on top of the TB's, build a ram scoop in the hood, and really grab some nice, cool air. Or even connect the airbox to the heater/ AC plenum under the windshield.

Oh, well. Gotta go get some coffee.

-->Slow

Interested......


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

I haven't researched the boosted forums lately.Emery's Top Feed Conversion That and I dragged my heals on this project too long. "You snooze you loose!" Since Emery states he hold a patent on this, I'll let him handle this deal. No Biggie, but if I had started on this sooner I might have beat him to the punch.

I'm still interseted in experimenting with the spacers though.

Yeah your about 2 months to late , its cool though. if you really wanna figure somthin out with spacers and adaptor plates, you should expirement with the 2200 manifold and throttle body to fit on the 2.2. Only issues i really see is the egr valve and the bolt pattern?. I dunno, i havent studied it much and dont really have the time to..But if you got this to work, it would open up the option for bigger throttle bodies on the 2.2, and a simple topfeed conversion

Emry.

96 Camaro A4 383 12.5:1, E85, Full suspension, Nitrous outlet plate kit, hooker headers and catback, 3800 circle D converter.

2002 Silverado LQ4 6.0 CAI, Long tube headers, 4" exhaust

1996 s10- 97 ECU and wiring, soon to be boosted daily driver.

Emery, I tried to e-mail you, your address isn't working.

try austingene2003@yahoo.com i dont have the other one anymore, and its to much work to change it on here lol.

96 Camaro A4 383 12.5:1, E85, Full suspension, Nitrous outlet plate kit, hooker headers and catback, 3800 circle D converter.

2002 Silverado LQ4 6.0 CAI, Long tube headers, 4" exhaust

1996 s10- 97 ECU and wiring, soon to be boosted daily driver.