Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay! - Performance Forum - j-body.org

I wouldn't go with standard sized bearings unless you know your crank does not need a regrind. Get the regrind and get the shop to order the correct sized bearings.

I paid less then $600CDN for a crank grind/balance, balanced rotating assembly, align hone, overbore, cam bearing change, pin fit, ring gap, 3 angle, head decking, and prep wash.

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:49 PM

Forgive me for not being on top of the 2.4s like I am the ECOTECs but I will say this...9:1 compression is low enough, I'd keep the stock sized head gasket.

Also, if you did get your cylinders bored, wouldn't you need your gaskets to be made to the new bore of the cylinder?

www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:59 PM

generally for .020" overbore you wouldn't need a new headgasket, its only 1/10th of an inch on each opposing side of the cylinder

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:01 PM

sorry 1/100th of an inch

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:13 PM

stevefire wrote:sorry 1/100th of an inch

Ok thanks, i was always curious of that.

www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:22 PM

stevefire wrote:I wouldn't go with standard sized bearings unless you know your crank does not need a regrind. Get the regrind and get the shop to order the correct sized bearings.

I paid less then $600CDN for a crank grind/balance, balanced rotating assembly, align hone, overbore, cam bearing change, pin fit, ring gap, 3 angle, head decking, and prep wash.

That's not a bad price at all (in US $'s). A hell of a lot less than I imagined.

Here's what I'm thinking right now... I can go to JBP and get their "Polished and Modified 2.4L LD9 Sport Crankshaft" for $83 US, get their "Crankshaft Lightening/Knife-Edge Service" for $250 US, and send them a crank identical to mine (probably from a junkyard since I don't want to use mine and not have a working car while they ship the new crank) to fulfill their new Core Charge rules. After all that, I should basically have a brand new crank that's better, stronger, and lighter. That should allow me to use standard size Clevitte 77 Main and Rod bearings, right?

Hope I actually thought all that through correctly...

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:20 AM

Dale Young

LD9 Fury that's not necessarrily true because JBP may have had to turn the crank undersize in order to get clean round journals, so call them and ask them if the crank was turned or not. By the way I'm gathering the exact same parts as you for my turbo buildup and I'm going to just pay JBP's 86$ core charge along with the $250 charge for knife edging and lightening and not have to worry about sending them a crank. That's what the core charge is for once you pay that you're done, and if you send them a crank first then you don't pay the $86 core charge just pay for the knife edge and lightening.
Also TurboTechRacing.com has the LD9 Eagle rods on sale right now for $289.99, I just ordered mine, and in two weeks when I get paid I'm gonna order my crank.
What head are you going to use, make sure to use ARP head & main studs.

2000 Z24 5spd header & catback for now.

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 1:24 AM

Dale Young wrote:LD9 Fury that's not necessarrily true because JBP may have had to turn the crank undersize in order to get clean round journals, so call them and ask them if the crank was turned or not. By the way I'm gathering the exact same parts as you for my turbo buildup and I'm going to just pay JBP's 86$ core charge along with the $250 charge for knife edging and lightening and not have to worry about sending them a crank. That's what the core charge is for once you pay that you're done, and if you send them a crank first then you don't pay the $86 core charge just pay for the knife edge and lightening.
Also TurboTechRacing.com has the LD9 Eagle rods on sale right now for $289.99, I just ordered mine, and in two weeks when I get paid I'm gonna order my crank.
What head are you going to use, make sure to use ARP head & main studs.

Just wanted to point out to you that JBP has new rules about core charges on their homepage.

CUSTOMER TO SUPPLY OWN CORES

At this time, we are no longer offering a core charge for our products that require a core. We switched our policy in such that at the time of shipment, the customer is required to ship their core PRIOR to us shipping the completed product. This applies to all products that require a core: such as cylinder heads, cams, throttle bodies, crate engines, etc. At JBP, we take pride in offering quality products and strive to produce a decent turn around time in delivery of parts. A problem has arose, in which customers that purchase products that contain a core charge, they do not return their old cores. This decision was an alternative to raising the core charge price to provide an incentive for customers to return cores.
Thank you for your co-operation.

In other words,
1)I buy the Knife-Edging service,
2)They tell me when it's done and I need to send them my crank,
3)I rip out my crankshaft from my engine (disabling the car, now I have no way of getting to work),
4)I ship the crankshaft to them in friggin Canada,
5)THEN they mail me my new crank all the way from Canada once they get my old crank.

That's a Hell of a lot of downtime for my car that I'd rather avoid, even if it means buying a new/used stock crankshaft identical to mine and shipping them that one so I can still have a running car while I'm waiting on them to finish up. Then I can just keep the crank they sent me laying around with all the other parts I'm buying for the rebuild and let the engine shop swap out everything all at once. So as you can see, the exact thing you were planning on doing is exactly what they don't want you to do, so they've taken away the ability to just buy the crank core, buy the knife edging service, and call it a day without sending them your old crank. I know, it sucks...

That kinda pissed me off when they started doing that, but it is understandable I guess. I just need to get a second crank to send to them. I dunno how anyone else feels, but personally, I would have preferred they just upped the price of the core charge like they said, because now customers have to rip apart their cars and wait around forever without a car until JBP sends them their new stuff.

You did make a good point about how they "may have had to turn the crank undersize in order to get clean round journals" as you put it. I'll call and ask them Monday, and I'll let you know what they say.

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:09 AM

SpeedRacerZ

one....... if going for High HP.... dont grind the crank down..... makes it weaker (just what I have been told over the years of working on these engines.... both the quad 4 and twin cam)

two..... if you dont have spun bearings, more then likely you wont need oversized bearings. The bearings are made of softer meterial then the crank and block, so all the wearing done should be in them, not the crank and block. But its always best to check bearing clearences when installing them (which is REALY easy to do).

three..... most machine shops dont work on cars, they only work on engines/transmissions. More then likely you will have to pull your own engine and bring it to them.

four...... order standered bearings, right before you need them..... that way if it turns out you need oversized (which I doubt) you can still return them..... NAPA carries the Clevite bearings.

and five..... if not going for huge power, go with the N/A Cometic Gasket..... should put you at about 9.2:! compression I believe (cant say for sure, cause dont have the measurments of your pistons) which is fine for boost. I have 9.4:1 in my current setup (9.5:1 pistons, .074" head gasket, head shaved .010")........

hope some of that helps.

oh yea..... my Cometic head gasket is EXACTLY the same diameter as my cylinders, and I bored mine .040" over.....

SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:25 AM

turning the crank down .010" you would think that it'd hardly be weakened at all, its only .010". however I do understand your point

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:41 AM

Dale Young

Thanks LD9 Fury I haven't been on their site in awhile and that's good info to know but still won't deter me because I have another complete core engine from a 99 Malibu that a friend is giving me for $50. That will give me the crank I need for the core, I just wish some of these friggin crank companies like Scat and egale etc would build us a 4340 forged crank then we wouldn't have to go through this.

2000 Z24 5spd header & catback for now.

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:52 AM

Magik1109

for the jvp crank, i called them before christmas and wanted a knife edge crank.
they told me to send them my crank and would do the work to the crank i send them, but as i cant have my car down for too much time, i sended them a junkyard crank. when they received the crank, they told me it was no good and has to pay 289$ JUST FOR FIXING THE CRANK, then pay another 290$ to get it knife edge... i said srcew that!!!! then they ask me 40$ for having checked the crank for me, and be told its no good!!!!!!
i thought that if it was no good i could probably just buy a core from them which would have been 89$.... i guess no!!!!!
i finally called around and find a local place that charge 70$ for polishing the crank!

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:58 PM

SpeedRacerZ wrote:one....... if going for High HP.... dont grind the crank down..... makes it weaker (just what I have been told over the years of working on these engines.... both the quad 4 and twin cam)

two..... if you dont have spun bearings, more then likely you wont need oversized bearings. The bearings are made of softer meterial then the crank and block, so all the wearing done should be in them, not the crank and block. But its always best to check bearing clearences when installing them (which is REALY easy to do).

three..... most machine shops dont work on cars, they only work on engines/transmissions. More then likely you will have to pull your own engine and bring it to them.

four...... order standered bearings, right before you need them..... that way if it turns out you need oversized (which I doubt) you can still return them..... NAPA carries the Clevite bearings.

and five..... if not going for huge power, go with the N/A Cometic Gasket..... should put you at about 9.2:! compression I believe (cant say for sure, cause dont have the measurments of your pistons) which is fine for boost. I have 9.4:1 in my current setup (9.5:1 pistons, .074" head gasket, head shaved .010")........

hope some of that helps.

oh yea..... my Cometic head gasket is EXACTLY the same diameter as my cylinders, and I bored mine .040" over.....

I'm don't think I'm going for crazy-high HP, just looking for maybe 230-250 @ crank turbocharged if I can pull it off. But you never know, everyone says boost is addicting so there's no telling where my HP will be once all is said and done

. Still that's a good point about having the crank turned down making it weaker. I don't think I'm gonna do that anymore since 230-250HP is quite a lot compared to the stock 150HP. I'd prefer to stay on the side of safety in this case and retain the original crank size.

Also a great point about the bearings. I don't have any spun bearings (as far as I know anyway) so I guess maybe the Standard size 77's would be fine with my current crank. Hope I understood that right...

From what you're sayaing, it seems it would be better to just use the regular Cometic head gasket. Thanks for clearing that up.

That was a lot of help. Let me know if there's anything else I should know. By the way, I'm loving the build you're doing to your 2002 Z24, that looks friggin badass. 12.876sec on 15psi is incredible. Congrats!

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:32 PM

unknownz24

Dale Young wrote:Also TurboTechRacing.com has the LD9 Eagle rods on sale right now for $289.99, I just ordered mine, and in two weeks when I get paid I'm gonna order my crank.
What head are you going to use, make sure to use ARP head & main studs.

those rods are ECOTEC only and there's only one set remaining

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:41 PM

LD9 Fury wrote:I'm don't think I'm going for crazy-high HP, just looking for maybe 230-250 @ crank turbocharged if I can pull it off. But you never know, everyone says boost is addicting so there's no telling where my HP will be once all is said and done

HAHAHA yeah right!

Trust me, when you have a fully rebuilt motor that can handle probably more than you'd be able to handle on street tires, you're not going to be just looking for "mid 200s crank". That would be a total waste.

So in other words...

Build Motor, Add Boost & TURN IT UP!

www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:38 PM

JM Graphics & Signs

250 crank? thats only about what 225ish wheels? i say go for about 250 whp, you gotta turbo man, turn that boost up, im goin for about 250whp in my gm charged and nitroused rebuilt engine.

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:29 PM

NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:
LD9 Fury wrote:I'm don't think I'm going for crazy-high HP, just looking for maybe 230-250 @ crank turbocharged if I can pull it off. But you never know, everyone says boost is addicting so there's no telling where my HP will be once all is said and done

HAHAHA yeah right!

Trust me, when you have a fully rebuilt motor that can handle probably more than you'd be able to handle on street tires, you're not going to be just looking for "mid 200s crank". That would be a total waste.

So in other words...

Build Motor, Add Boost & TURN IT UP!

BOOSTED wrote:250 crank? thats only about what 225ish wheels? i say go for about 250 whp, you gotta turbo man, turn that boost up, im goin for about 250whp in my gm charged and nitroused rebuilt engine.

LOL great point guys. Now I'm really getting enthusiastic

I'm sure my engine project will go fine no matter what I have to do, and it should allow me to run some fairly intense power... I'm more worried about this retarded-ass Isuzu 5-spd tranny taking a giant crap as soon as I feed lots of power.

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:42 PM

LD9 Fury! wrote:
NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:
LD9 Fury wrote:I'm don't think I'm going for crazy-high HP, just looking for maybe 230-250 @ crank turbocharged if I can pull it off. But you never know, everyone says boost is addicting so there's no telling where my HP will be once all is said and done

HAHAHA yeah right!

Trust me, when you have a fully rebuilt motor that can handle probably more than you'd be able to handle on street tires, you're not going to be just looking for "mid 200s crank". That would be a total waste.

So in other words...

Build Motor, Add Boost & TURN IT UP!
BOOSTED wrote:250 crank? thats only about what 225ish wheels? i say go for about 250 whp, you gotta turbo man, turn that boost up, im goin for about 250whp in my gm charged and nitroused rebuilt engine.
LOL great point guys. Now I'm really getting enthusiastic

I'm sure my engine project will go fine no matter what I have to do, and it should allow me to run some fairly intense power... I'm more worried about this retarded-ass Isuzu 5-spd tranny taking a giant crap as soon as I feed lots of power.

It's times like this you wish you had the wonderful 4T40E 4-speed transmission, huh?

www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Monday, February 13, 2006 12:14 PM

NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:It's times like this you wish you had the wonderful 4T40E 4-speed transmission, huh?

LOL not in a million years! I'd have to wash myself with a belt sander if I ever owned an automatic car

Maybe Getrag swap... may be even NVG-550 swap... bah I'd rather just buy an 03-05 Ecotec and start all over again before going through all that crap on my current car that barely squeezes a KBB value of $1500

just doesn't seem worth it...

Turbo as hard as I can until Isuzu tranny falls out of the car, then use that as an excuse to buy myself an 05 Sunfire

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Monday, February 13, 2006 4:48 PM

LD9 Fury! wrote:
NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:It's times like this you wish you had the wonderful 4T40E 4-speed transmission, huh?
LOL not in a million years! I'd have to wash myself with a belt sander if I ever owned an automatic car Maybe Getrag swap... may be even NVG-550 swap... bah I'd rather just buy an 03-05 Ecotec and start all over again before going through all that crap on my current car that barely squeezes a KBB value of $1500 just doesn't seem worth it...

Turbo as hard as I can until Isuzu tranny falls out of the car, then use that as an excuse to buy myself an 05 Sunfire

You would buy an 05 Sunfire just to be like me LOL

www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Monday, February 13, 2006 10:58 PM

NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:
LD9 Fury! wrote:
NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:It's times like this you wish you had the wonderful 4T40E 4-speed transmission, huh?
LOL not in a million years! I'd have to wash myself with a belt sander if I ever owned an automatic car Maybe Getrag swap... may be even NVG-550 swap... bah I'd rather just buy an 03-05 Ecotec and start all over again before going through all that crap on my current car that barely squeezes a KBB value of $1500 just doesn't seem worth it...

Turbo as hard as I can until Isuzu tranny falls out of the car, then use that as an excuse to buy myself an 05 Sunfire

You would buy an 05 Sunfire just to be like me LOL

LOL! What can I say... I like the look of Sunfires a helluva lot more than cavaliers. At least when it comes to the 03-05 J's I like the 'Fire's more... cuz for the Pre-03 J's I like the Cavaliers better... Except for the 00-02 Headlights on the Cav's... I can't stand those. Maybe I'm just a weirdo... but that's how I see it.

As far as being just like you, I don't think that would work out too well. "KYHK (The Turbo Cracker)" and " KYHK (The Turbo Honkey)" just doesn't have the same ring to it....

Da Turbo Cracka, perhaps???

Believe it or not, when I step back and look at the big picture, I don't have A LOT of money invested in my 2.4L Cav... I've always been more of an Eco fan since I first learned about them... I'm diggin' the Eco's growing aftermarket favoritism... so maybe there's an Eco Sunfire in my not-too-distant future...??

Re: Yay! Another engine build-up thread! Yay!

Monday, February 13, 2006 11:07 PM