What do you guys think about that making a 1993 Pontiac sunbird with a 2.0 OHC N/A make over 200 HP. comments please.
uhhh how about no
1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd
y you say no you don't think its possible.
Well lets see..
The 2.0 OHC motor was in only certain model cars back in the early 90s, so they weren't all that popular as far as aftermarket goes...even now, there is no aftermarket support for it unless you deal with a company like jbody performance.
I don't know for sure but I'm going to assume they were about 9:1 compression. N/A, you're probably running under 100 whp now. OBDI computers are a bit easier to deal with but you still need to find a type of program for engine management because you'd have to raise your compression to try and make some type of power and you'd have to reach a higher RPM range. Also, you'd have to replace your camshaft with a higher grind camshaft, do some headwork to shift your powerband upward. Maybe even going as far as boring your cylinders out...
Even with all that said and done, I highly doubt you would touch 200 whp. It's a boost motor, give it what it wants
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Yea but iam a N/A guy and it would be a challenge to get it close to 200 HP. well my goal is just 200 HP and i think its possible. well all just find out this summer.
Caviboy90 wrote:Yea but iam a N/A guy and it would be a challenge to get it close to 200 HP. well my goal is just 200 HP and i think its possible. well all just find out this summer.
It'll be a challenge finding engine parts for your car as well...
Honestly, you're better off swapping a V6 in if you want good N/A power.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
And buy the way the sunbrid in 1993 came with 110 HP and the GT came with 165 HP. so with a start of 110 HP i could make 200 HP.
Caviboy90 wrote:And buy the way the sunbrid in 1993 came with 110 HP and the GT came with 165 HP. so with a start of 110 HP i could make 200 HP.
Yeah...that's CRANK horsepower...I'm talking about WHEEL horsepower. Wheel horsepower should be the only power that matters to you cause that's the power that you're actually recieving and using. If you're a manual, you're losing about 10-12% of crank horsepower through your drivetrain by time it hits your wheels. If you're an auto, it could be anywhere from 15-20% depending on which transmission you have. Also, gearing plays into effect.
So now that we have that explained, you're talking about gaining over 100 whp on a 4 cylinder, non variable valve timed, 1 camshaft motor and you're also dealing with a motor that is about 13 years old with no type of aftermarket support.
Don't waste your time...turbo it or do a swap.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
personally, i think it'd be more fun to swap in a v6 with a lot more power, and just let that car go nuts.
The engine in my car is fully rebuilt all new parts cam, head,pistons,crank, ETC and if i throw a 50 to a 100 Shot of nitrous it should do it. so lets see all new rebuilt 2.0 OHC with cold air full 2 1/2 inch exhaust and nitrous it should do it.
cannon fodder wrote:personally, i think it'd be more fun to swap in a v6 with a lot more power, and just let that car go nuts.
Agreed.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Caviboy90 wrote:The engine in my car is fully rebuilt all new parts cam, head,pistons,crank, ETC and if i throw a 50 to a 100 Shot of nitrous it should do it. so lets see all new rebuilt 2.0 OHC with cold air full 2 1/2 inch exhaust and nitrous it should do it.
Using Nitrous isn't going N/A...you might as well hook up a turbo on there because you're basically doing the same thing, you're adding oxygen to boost the power in your motor.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
thanks guys for all the info and talk and i will try and see what happens.
dude don't bother. this is the voice of reason, listen to me!
A 100 shot of nitrous will do the trick if you're willing to have 200 horses for a couple hours and can dodge flying engine parts when it explodes.
Bolt ons, if you can find them, are probably going to get you up to 135 horsepower at max. Good luck finding a turbocharger.
Get a car with a better engine and keep the '93 as your grocery getter, dude.
Sadly, no more..
200hp from a 2.0 OHC isnt something that cant be done, but to do it and do it cheap no way... lets see with a basic list of components here...
MIN. 12:1 compression (would reccomend more along the lines of 14:1)
fully ported polished head
custom headgasket
custom pistons (only way you'd get the compression)
custom grind cam (big bucks)
custom intake
custom exhaust
stand alone engine managment (megasquirt,holley, etc)
you would also probably have to look at getting custom rods built as the stockers amy not stand that kind of load. 2.5" exhaust is REALLY overboard even on the most retarded 2.0OHC build.. 2 1/4 would be max i'd go
so basically this would be a race gas only junkie that would take lots of moola to build, where as if the same time and cash was spent on say a quad 4 or a 3.1L you'd be down in the 13 second range or lower in the 1/4 mile.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Caviboy90 wrote:What do you guys think about that making a 1993 Pontiac sunbird with a 2.0 OHC N/A make over 200 HP. comments please.
i'd say its VERY WELL possible. you will just need to work with a machine shop in the parts.
if you source out your parts and work witha decent machine shop, then it shouldnt take a "whole lots of moola" to build as some say.
key thing to remember when building a motor
you need 2 of the following
1) actual real knowledge
2) money
3) time.
i;ve seen SUB 100 hp cars taken up to 175+ in a short amount of time N/A and spent less money than most guys are using on boost.
you dont need power adders always. its a good use, and for most these days an easy fix... but not needed.
you dont necessarily NEED to swap in a whole new engine. if you actually sit down, plan it out and take your time, it really doesnt matter how popular or unpopular your engine is or was... it can be modded. now you can swap in a large engine to a smaller car and have it be fun, but in doing so, you will always be questioned... why do a 6 cylinder,, why didnt you do an 8 cylinder.... and then so and so will ask, well why not this engine, instead of that older engine. its a never ending circle of why nots...
simple fact, a highschool automotive shop class, turbo charged a geo metro 3 cylinder engine, that does 150mph in the salt flats, and has pretty impressive 1/4 mile and acceleration times.... well faster than any avg car on this site of any gen vehicle. its been featured in sport compact car numerous times each time it broke a record.
-they didnt swap to the 4 cylinder LS engine, they kept a 3
-the total build was around 1000$ or so. cause they actually sat down and sourced out parts.
-it just goes to show, people can sit down, plan something and know or learn WTF to do and get it done.
Quote:
And buy the way the sunbrid in 1993 came with 110 HP and the GT came with 165 HP. so with a start of 110 HP i could make 200 HP.
thats DEF true. and even if its not wheel hp, it still would be decently close and pretty much faster than about 90% of the cars on this site to begin with. there are only a handful of the thousands of people who sit around saying... it cant be done.... that have actually done a build of some sort, past basic boltons, or have working knowledge of the cars.
HP numbers on a dyno sheet dont mean much, it still has to go through a transmission before the output, and you STILL have to achieve traction in driving.
all in all, i am simply saying, it shouldnt be as hard as most are making it seem. find a decent shop, work with them and let them work with you... that way you usually can pay a lil each week or so. talk to some of the guys who have actually built decent N/A cars with not alot of cash like scrufdog;s doomie, and just go for it, if thats what you want to do.
Manitoba Motosports.....
Quote:
custom grind cam (big bucks)
crane does custom grinds for under 140, last i recieved the one i have in my rebuild....(although it was free, but i asked dave maxwell on the price at the howell automotive open house) so how is 140$ or less... big bucks? maybe for those who normally JUST buy intakes.... but alot of people here DO NOT search around and find out the MANY places who do work like this. at most, i;ve seen 225 be the highest for a single cam regrind and that was from elgin cams.....local shops normally start regrinds at around 90$. thats not exactly big bucks unless someone is dealing with hot wheels
as far as compression goes, if i remember right, scrufs car is a 10:1 or a 10:5:1.... 174 at the wheels before nitrous...., which was upped from around 85hp to the wheels.... a stock 2.2 L OHV cavalier in 3 speed auto, usually has around the mid 80s for HP to the wheels. so you do the math... 174 minus 85 = 89 hp gained.... and there is/was still more that could have been done to the car before he simply got tired of the j-body scene... he doesnt run a mega squirt. simple...an msd, and controls fuel pressure.
back in the day, people HAD to know what they were doing to build an engine decently.
Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:
Manitoba Motosports.....
Quote:
custom grind cam (big bucks)
crane does custom grinds for under 140, last i recieved the one i have in my rebuild....(although it was free, but i asked dave maxwell on the price at the howell automotive open house) so how is 140$ or less... big bucks? maybe for those who normally JUST buy intakes.... but alot of people here DO NOT search around and find out the MANY places who do work like this. at most, i;ve seen 225 be the highest for a single cam regrind and that was from elgin cams.....local shops normally start regrinds at around 90$. thats not exactly big bucks unless someone is dealing with hot wheels
as far as compression goes, if i remember right, scrufs car is a 10:1 or a 10:5:1.... 174 at the wheels before nitrous...., which was upped from around 85hp to the wheels.... a stock 2.2 L OHV cavalier in 3 speed auto, usually has around the mid 80s for HP to the wheels. so you do the math... 174 minus 85 = 89 hp gained.... and there is/was still more that could have been done to the car before he simply got tired of the j-body scene... he doesnt run a mega squirt. simple...an msd, and controls fuel pressure.
back in the day, people HAD to know what they were doing to build an engine decently.
the 140bux is if they already grind that cam, to my knowledge no one has grinds availible for the 2.0L OHC so they will have to do a re-grind and if they've never done that cam before, it gets expensive... (although i dont deal greatly with crane, i'm more of a comp cams guy)
the 2.2L is a whole different beast. the 2.0 OHC was never known for its durablitly (ie. headgasket monster). it may not cost as much as i say or figure, but having built as much engines as i have i can tell you it will be no easy feat to get one thats going to be RELIABLE.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Manitoba Motorsports wrote:
the 140bux is if they already grind that cam, to my knowledge no one has grinds availible for the 2.0L OHC so they will have to do a re-grind and if they've never done that cam before, it gets expensive... (although i dont deal greatly with crane, i'm more of a comp cams guy)
the 2.2L is a whole different beast. the 2.0 OHC was never known for its durablitly (ie. headgasket monster). it may not cost as much as i say or figure, but having built as much engines as i have i can tell you it will be no easy feat to get one thats going to be RELIABLE.
just cause you;ve built other engines doesnt mean your experience applies to every single engine. nothing personal, but anything is only as good as its created in the building process. i remember hearing the same statements about mike karas engine, never gonna reach 350hp reliably, but then i do remember seeing 410hp dyno sheets posted on here of a daily driven z24...
a decent fel pro headgasket are sustaining cars upwards of 250hp. not even MLS. if you can find a fel-pro, chances are you should be safe. not everyone is gonna be flooring it 24/7 showing off. if you drive normal and save the hot rodding for the track and occasional spirited driving on the street, if you build it right, it should cost an arm and a testicle, you shouldnt have to go as extreme as some have said, and it should be reliable.
secondly, crane has been doing grinds on pretty much ANY cam, you simply fill out their custom grind sheet.
side note: elgin cams does the same, i know scruf mentioned that back before j-body.org existed when he was doing his build and the fastest cavaliers were like high 14 second cars. he was one of the first 13 second cars.....
like said, i have met dave maxwell who pretty much is in control of the sport compact cam stuff at the howell automotive open house along with bubbleguts on here back in aug 28th of 2004. we talked about different cars and how they got the partnership with crane cams and howell... i supplied the pushrods for prototyping as well to crane, along with the rocker arms...
i also have the first regrind that howell automotive had gotten made for the 2.2ohv... i supplied the cam, for the specs and such, and got a cam out of it in return. howell auto has helped me GREATLY in my rebuild. the price since they havent done that one before, would have been around 185. considering most will spend more than that on a radio, or interior accesories, body kit, etc.... 200$ or 225$ at the most STILL IS NOT BIG BUCKS... just look at almost anyones car and see how much extra non needed appearance stuff is on there and put it in perspective.
while there (open house) i went as far as asking what they do em for, and he said pretty much anything new or old. price is determined more on the work and time it takes, and how high of a lift you go to....
2.0 may be a weaker engine, but its more of an excuse than anything. most people say the same about the neon engine, but howell auto built a 312 or i know it was 300+ hp engine out of it. unless you are shooting for 500+, theres always a weaker or stronger engine in comparison. same goes for transmissions. either are only gonna be as good as you build it.
the word of the day is CUSTOM. shop around, like said.
however many of the posts in this thread are WAY out of proportion especially when dealing with cost figures. and yes, you can build something RELIABLE if you know WTF you are doing, anyone can.... even up to getting ARP head studs as well. you simply need to do the ground work yourself of find a shop that will work with you. the specs on thread pitch, lengths, and size are really most all thats needed.
the only way something will be NOT RELIABLE, is if you half arse and just throw crap together, which for many on these forum, happens often. (just read any of the posts saying "i bought this on ebay, is this good?....kinda makes you think about asking BEFORE buying)
like said
time knowledge or money... pick 2 and you will be fine
