I was thinking about getting megasquirt (for fuel and spark) and getting it tuned to run premium. It makes sense in my mind that I will be able to advance the ignition farther and get more power all the way around out of it. Are there any faults in my thinking? Any idea as to what kind of gains I can get out of this?
you make more power on lower ocatane ratings
and the motors will only like so much advanced timing before they lose power
alot of racers actually make more power in the higher rpm , with little less timing
well would i be able to get a decent gain out of tuning it for whatever type of fuel? also, i do have intake and full exhaust on it right now. I plan on going HO intake and throttle body and the secret cams at some point this summer hopefully.
so you are telling me that a megasquirt can control timing? thats news to me, I know you can get an msd thing to retard timing but not advance
and when running premium you don't have to run more feul, just add more advance. higher octane doesn't actually GIVE you more power, it allows you to run more spark, compression, boost, n02, ect, without detonation.
when I figured out on my car that I couldn't just turn a distributer or get a handheld tuner to do my spark I decided to put in hotter plugs to boost compression(just haven't done it yet). you may want to look that route if you want to get more power out of premium gas
you're not going to gain anything from higher octane fuel alone. you'll only need it if you have high compression pistons or forced induction because of the higher cylinder pressures. if you're not turbo or supercharged, and are still on stock internals, filling up on premium vs. 87 octane is just a waste of money.
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
NUTCASE . wrote:so you are telling me that a megasquirt can control timing? thats news to me, I know you can get an msd thing to retard timing but not advance
and when running premium you don't have to run more feul, just add more advance. higher octane doesn't actually GIVE you more power, it allows you to run more spark, compression, boost, n02, ect, without detonation.
when I figured out on my car that I couldn't just turn a distributer or get a handheld tuner to do my spark I decided to put in hotter plugs to boost compression(just haven't done it yet). you may want to look that route if you want to get more power out of premium gas
I believe on our cars, it can control it along with an MSD ignition system only but don't quote me on that.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Robbie c wrote:Quote:
I decided to put in hotter plugs to boost compression
?
i laughed at that too
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
NJHK (The JBO Negro) wrote:NUTCASE . wrote:so you are telling me that a megasquirt can control timing? thats news to me, I know you can get an msd thing to retard timing but not advance
and when running premium you don't have to run more feul, just add more advance. higher octane doesn't actually GIVE you more power, it allows you to run more spark, compression, boost, n02, ect, without detonation.
when I figured out on my car that I couldn't just turn a distributer or get a handheld tuner to do my spark I decided to put in hotter plugs to boost compression(just haven't done it yet). you may want to look that route if you want to get more power out of premium gas
I believe on our cars, it can control it along with an MSD ignition system only but don't quote me on that.
Megasquirt can definitely control our ignition. On megasquirt.info under the megasquirt 2 section it lists gm dis and i know in the msnse it specifically lists the quad 4 as a supported ignition
NUTCASE . wrote:I decided to put in hotter plugs to boost compression
Can you explain this?
97redGT - Purchasing MS, in my opinion, wouldn't be worth the gains you'd see from attempting to tune using the system. You're still N/A with no major work done and I don't think you'll get good gains. Its a substantial amount of money that could be put towards other areas of your car.
Blown.
Filip (The Polish Kid) wrote:97redGT - Purchasing MS, in my opinion, wouldn't be worth the gains you'd see from attempting to tune using the system. You're still N/A with no major work done and I don't think you'll get good gains. Its a substantial amount of money that could be put towards other areas of your car.
Yea, I was reading more about it and I think I'm gonna get some more work into my car before I buy megasquirt
Spotabee Racing (The Fake Z24) wrote:
i laughed at that too
ok, have you ever looked inside a spark plug by where the porcline goes down to the base of the plug on the side that faces the combustion chamber? you will notice it goes down a ways. this is to pull some of the heat out of the combustion chamber. if you get a hot plug and a cold plug next to each other and compare them you will see that the cold plug goes deeper into the spark plug than the hot plug.
on a boosted car you want a colder plug to reduce heat so you can fit more air/feul in there and take advantage of the fact that the air is being forced into the cylander
on an no2 car you want a colder plug becouse when the no2 hits combustion temps skyrocket and you want to keep that under control
how-ever, on an n/a car using a hotter plug to increase the level of heat inside the cylander will increase compression and yeild more power assuming you have the octane to handle it. this especially helps on aluminum headed cars where the alumninum dissapates heat quickly. have you ever noticed that cars that come with aluminum heads are rated at higher compression than those with cast iron? the factory puts higher compression pistons on cars with aluminum heads to make up for this loss of heat.
basically, increased heat=increased compression
increased compression=increased power
hotter plugs=increased heat
and you get the heat range you get from the factory so that the car can run on 87 octane endith sermon
NUTCASE . wrote:Spotabee Racing (The Fake Z24) wrote:
i laughed at that too
ok, have you ever looked inside a spark plug by where the porcline goes down to the base of the plug on the side that faces the combustion chamber? you will notice it goes down a ways. this is to pull some of the heat out of the combustion chamber. if you get a hot plug and a cold plug next to each other and compare them you will see that the cold plug goes deeper into the spark plug than the hot plug.
on a boosted car you want a colder plug to reduce heat so you can fit more air/feul in there and take advantage of the fact that the air is being forced into the cylander
on an no2 car you want a colder plug becouse when the no2 hits combustion temps skyrocket and you want to keep that under control
how-ever, on an n/a car using a hotter plug to increase the level of heat inside the cylander will increase compression and yeild more power assuming you have the octane to handle it. this especially helps on aluminum headed cars where the alumninum dissapates heat quickly. have you ever noticed that cars that come with aluminum heads are rated at higher compression than those with cast iron? the factory puts higher compression pistons on cars with aluminum heads to make up for this loss of heat.
basically, increased heat=increased compression
increased compression=increased power
hotter plugs=increased heat
and you get the heat range you get from the factory so that the car can run on 87 octane endith sermon
Heat shouldn't have anything to do with compression. If that was the case, you would see tons of people swapping out their spark plugs for some huge advantage in power.
Quote:
The compression ratio is a single number that can be used to predict the performance of any internal-combustion engine. It is a ratio between the volume of a combustion chamber when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke, and the volume when the piston is at the top of its stroke.
So there you go, that's what determines your compression...not heat.
Quote:
A spark plug is said to be "hot" if it is a better heat insulator, keeping more heat in the tip of the spark plug. A spark plug is said to be "cold" if it can conduct more heat out of the spark plug tip and lower the tip's temperature. Whether a spark plug is "hot" or "cold" is known as the heat range of the spark plug.
Quote:
Heat from the combustion chamber escapes through the exhaust gases, the side walls of the cylinder and the spark plug itself. The heat range of a spark plug has only a minute effect on combustion chamber and overall engine temperature.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJHK (The JBO Negro) wrote:
Heat shouldn't have anything to do with compression. If that was the case, you would see tons of people swapping out their spark plugs for some huge advantage in power.
Quote:
The compression ratio is a single number that can be used to predict the performance of any internal-combustion engine. It is a ratio between the volume of a combustion chamber when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke, and the volume when the piston is at the top of its stroke.
So there you go, that's what determines your compression...not heat.
Quote:
A spark plug is said to be "hot" if it is a better heat insulator, keeping more heat in the tip of the spark plug. A spark plug is said to be "cold" if it can conduct more heat out of the spark plug tip and lower the tip's temperature. Whether a spark plug is "hot" or "cold" is known as the heat range of the spark plug.
Quote:
Heat from the combustion chamber escapes through the exhaust gases, the side walls of the cylinder and the spark plug itself. The heat range of a spark plug has only a minute effect on combustion chamber and overall engine temperature.
I don't actually read your posts
I stare them down until they give me the information I require
as far as i can remember
alot of motors use the aluminum heads and higher compression because they can keep the temp down to a more useable range
and the increase in compression increases the power
yes motors are heat pumps , but you have to control the heat , and that is part of the job of the plugs , and the head and cylinders
ok, I screwed that up and hit the post button before I wrote anything
anyways, you said the spark range of a plug does not effect the overall temperature of the engine, I diddn't say the temp of the engine, I said the temp of combustion
and physics class taught me that when gas gets hotter it expands. and there is a difference between the compression you can measure with the dimentions of the motor and the actual amount of compressino you get when when the motor is running
I don't actually read your posts
I stare them down until they give me the information I require
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM&00s/c sedans™)]as far as i can remember
alot of motors use the aluminum heads and higher compression because they can keep the temp down to a more useable range
so you are saying that higher compression= a colder motor
that definatly doesn't go together
I don't actually read your posts
I stare them down until they give me the information I require
NUTCASE . wrote:[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM&00s/c sedans™)]as far as i can remember
alot of motors use the aluminum heads and higher compression because they can keep the temp down to a more useable range
so you are saying that higher compression= a colder motor
that definatly doesn't go together
I don't think he means that high-comp. = colder motor... think he means that the aluminum head can deal with the heat from high-comp.
Can't necessary prove or disprove that, but I'm sure that's what his point is.
ok, to elaborate on the aluminum head thing further:
aluminum dissapates more heat than cast iron. reasearch all you want you will find that fact to be true
manufacturers have turned to aluminum becouse it is roughly 40% lighter than cast iron if not more depending on the grade. if it wasant for its light weight nobody would care and manufacturers would stick with cast iron for its superior strength
have you ever gone head shopping and noticed that the cc's of the bowl on an aluminum head are a little less than that of comparable cast iron heads. the aluminum heads have the smaller cc's to boost compression becouse without that you wouldn't be getting all you could out of the head becouse the aluminum dissapating more heat than cast iron would lower the (either static on nominal?, I'll just call it themal until I figure out which one I am reffering to) thermal compression
I don't actually read your posts
I stare them down until they give me the information I require
NUTCASE . wrote:NJHK (The JBO Negro) wrote:
Heat shouldn't have anything to do with compression. If that was the case, you would see tons of people swapping out their spark plugs for some huge advantage in power.
Quote:
The compression ratio is a single number that can be used to predict the performance of any internal-combustion engine. It is a ratio between the volume of a combustion chamber when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke, and the volume when the piston is at the top of its stroke.
So there you go, that's what determines your compression...not heat.
Quote:
A spark plug is said to be "hot" if it is a better heat insulator, keeping more heat in the tip of the spark plug. A spark plug is said to be "cold" if it can conduct more heat out of the spark plug tip and lower the tip's temperature. Whether a spark plug is "hot" or "cold" is known as the heat range of the spark plug.
Quote:
Heat from the combustion chamber escapes through the exhaust gases, the side walls of the cylinder and the spark plug itself. The heat range of a spark plug has only a minute effect on combustion chamber and overall engine temperature.
Ok...what the hell is that supposed to mean? I gave you the information to show you that your theory was incorrect and showed you what determines compression. You're the one thinking that heat does, not me. Get your facts straight before you try and get smart with people.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Nevermind...
change your sig cause it makes it look like you're talking to people like that
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
the information you were refferring to is nominal compression. which is a measurement of the cylanders pumping ratio when compared to atmospherec air
I am referring to the static compression(or dynamic, or thermal) which is the compression that actually acts on the motor when it is running. accouning for combustion temps, leakdown, and other outside factors that come into play when the motor is running
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I don't actually read your posts
I stare them down until they give me the information I require
sorry about the misleading sig
fixed it as soon as I read your post and looked at my other posts
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I don't actually read your posts
I stare them down until they give me the information I require
I'm not going to argue with you, Nutcase, about how hot gases expand. This may boost compression slightly, but I think you're overlooking to big picture. Heat kills a motor! Granted, aluminum dissipates heat more quickly but that doesn't mean that increasing the heat inside the combustion chamber is the best idea. I don't care how fast aluminum can dissipate heat when compared with iron, the added heat plus the raised compression would definitely turn me away from this idea. The goal in any car application should be to reduce heat (engine, tranny, etc.) because heat destroys parts.
Blown.
