I was thinking about removing mine in my Eco, but I wanted to know if there is anything else I need to do? Other than put in new gears or whatever. where are they at in the eco? Is it a huge job taking them out? Is there any reason I shouldn't take them out? Will my engine not run as smooth? Are the gains somewhat noticable?
Any help would be great!
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
hit me up on aim sometime ive done it to mine i can explain it all for ya
The one, the only, ME.
A how-to will be fine, I'm interested too. I heard about a balance shaft removal kit from GM, someone have the part number for it????
my question is this............cant you just put the gm replacement in? or is there alot of work required? i.e pulling the engine out?
or is it basically just plug and play
Yea i spell liek wrong get over it.
well it can be done with the engine on the vehicle but you have to support the engine and remove mounts and tip the motor a bit. i did mine while the engine was out and was easy.
basically you pull the front cover off take the chains and guides all apart/out and the tensioners then unbolt the balance shafts, its one bolt that holds them in place. the gears are bolted to the shafts. there are some custom pieces need to be made/purchased, 2 inserts that go down inside the shaft tunnels to block the rear journal oiling ports so you can keep pressure, then you need the shaft stubs that can be bought with the inserts. they look like this
the stubs replace the balance shafts by getting bolted to the gears so you are basically left with the gears as idlers to still drive your water pump
i bought these parts from LZM and havent had any issues at all its noticable id say to in the gains but not sure exactly how much.
hope that works i just did this off the top of my head and is basically the process sounds easy but does take some worrk especially if the engine is in the car still and make sure you remember how the guides and tensioners all go back in place. you will have to remove the cams and fully slacken the chain.
The one, the only, ME.
Does this really make a difference? or is it a difference but not worth it?
thats really intresting?....i guess there are 2 setups then?
cause i think gms setup is a full replacemnt shaft
see gms looks liek a factory replacement so there is still a shaft its just neutral?
just trying to learn more
cause im thinkin of doin but trying to guage intrest into wheter or not its worth doin
Quote:
88958615 Neutral Balance Shaft Set
This neutral balance shaft set is used to replace the stock balance shafts in a high speed performance engine. Set includes two balance shafts.
GMPartsDirect.com wrote:
GM PART # 88958615
CATEGORY: Engine Crankshaft and Camshaft Balancer
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $468.16
OUR PRICE: $327.71
DESCRIPTION: Neutral Balance Shaft Set
This neutral balance shaft set is used to replace the stock balance shafts in a high speed performance engine. Set includes two balance shafts.
Yea i spell liek wrong get over it.
the difference between the neutral shafts and no shafts proabably wont be to much the thing with the neutral shafts is they are perfectly round and no lobe. itll be cheaper to do no shafts and i think its well worth it
The one, the only, ME.
Power is created/freed up in two ways with the modification of the balance shafts.
1. Less rotating mass, same principle as a lightened crank pully. I havn't had a chance to weigh the difference but I'd estimate about 7-10lbs is removed by doing the delete. the neutral shafts look like they might be heavier, or in the least the saem weight.
2. Not spinning an uneven shape ... it takes more power the spin an unbalanced shape, then it does to spin a balanced shape.
Deleting the shafts will net you higher gains, but there is concern of premature bearing wear. No one I know has experienced it yet but it is a concern. Thankfully the front bearing is replaceable so even if they do wear uneven it's not to hard to fix. The other advantages to this mod are that you can rev faster, and you can rev higher in theory. The reson I say in theory is most people will still have the stock rev limiter in place.
I have installed the delete kit twice now. Once with the engine in and once with it out. It is way easier with the engine out, but can be done with the engine in. As was said you have to undo the mounts and tilt the engine down and forward. I figure it's a bout a 2-6 hour install depending how comfortable you are with the Ecotec timing assembly. You don't have to worry cam timing becasue there is no reason to undo the cam chain. And a tip that took me a couple times to figure out is to remove the water pump gear first. It gives you lots of slack in the chain making it easy to move out of the way.
Who makes this kit again? I had thier email but can't find it.
1988 Pontiac Fiero, engine transplant underway.
2004 ECOtec, built and boosted
talk to that guy LIVID the company is Level Zero Motorsports he runs it though
The one, the only, ME.
So can you do this without having to mess with the timing or not? Is it nessecary to completely take out the cam sprockets or can you do it with the chain still on there?
I'm Starting to think this isn't worth the trouble and besides I don't want to prematurly ruin any bearing.
Thanks for all the replies and info!
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch
you can do this without touching the chain for the cams. There are two chains, one for the cams and the other for the balance shafts and the water pump. You do have to take apart the assembly for the water pump chain to get everything out.
As for bearing failure, I don't think it will ever be an issue. Ever balance shaft delete kit I have seen for various cars does pretty much the same thing. But untill people have been running the delete for a few years it's always hard to say 100%.
This is not a mod for everyone. The balance shafts are there to make the engine run smoother, without them there will be an increase in vibrations. The delete versus the neutral shafts is for those looking for every last horsepower they can get. The delete can not be undne in the future, whereas the neutral shafts can be replaced with stock ones.
How much is this going to cost?
yes in my engine with upper and lower mounts and stage 2 cams the vibes are a bit more between 900-1500 rpms otherwise you cant tell like said if you dont like the vibes you get from the motor mounts you wont like this. i only took my complete timing assembly apart cause the engine was out of the car and i was swapping cams at the time also so i just ook it all out of the way but yes as LIVID said if you take the water pump gear off you can get at it all without touching the cam timing. also with the delete you dont have to retime the water pump chain and gears
The one, the only, ME.
Karo (Car Customs) wrote:How much is this going to cost?
Depends how many you want
next time is see you on msn I'll we can talk. Maybe we can work out a trade.
