What are some good valvesprings that can be used with stock keepers and retainers. I have a cam and 1:6 rockers. And dont say JBP
I just ordered the <'93 keepers earlier this week, to check to see if they will work with my valve stems and locks. The <'93s used 8mm valve stems, while the later models used 7mm stems, so I want to see if they will work, before I order my springs.
If they work, I'll be getting the Crane 99848-16 valve springs. On my 2.2L they'll have a seat pressure of 101 lbs @ 1.710" installed hight, an open pressure of 266 lbs @ 1.243" and they have a rate of 382 lbs / inch.
On your 2200 you would probably need to get the 2.2L valves, for the added valve stem legnth, like HotRod V6 was going to do. Even with them, you will probably still need to have the spring seats machined for an installed hight of 1.700". This would put you at the Crane specs of 105 lbs @ 1.700" installed hight, the open pressure depends on the amount of lift your cam makes and the rate won't change. These springs are good for up to 0.480" lift at that installed hight.
Comp Cams has the 980-16 valve springs, that have the same installed pressure, a rate of 417 lbs / inch, but are only good for 0.470" lift. the K-Motion K-700 springs have a seat pressure of 120 lbs @ 1.700", a rate of 464 lbs / inch and are good for 0.550" lift, but with these spring you would want a set of the JBP HP lifters and probably the <'93 oil pump to keep the oil pressure in the lifters up, to prevent lifter pump-up.
I know it means more work, but without using the few high performance parts that are available, you have to do some sort of custom work. Just remember, in the early days of hot rodding, they had to make most of the parts them-selves, today we only have to modify a few parts of have them made for us and we have much more knowlege available to have much better parts.
Haha, after that ^^ I'd bet he's wishing he would have kept the JBP setup and just bought the new keepers like we told him
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
no not realy
, You think my stock springs will bind witht he cam and rockers at stock rpm levels?
Did you get the same cam as Event? What's the lift?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
With the HR-206/313-12 regrind, you will will have 0.501 lift w/ 1.6 rockers. I would venture to say yes you will bind. Since you dont have the the JBP set up anymore, go with the K-Motion K-700 springs,
IF the retainers work!
you guys are way to damn smart..i hate you all for life
...j/k
MadJack wrote:With the HR-206/313-12 regrind, you will will have 0.501 lift w/ 1.6 rockers. I would venture to say yes you will bind. Since you dont have the the JBP set up anymore, go with the K-Motion K-700 springs, IF the retainers work!
Yea thats what i was thinking....And I can use 2200 valves with those right? but still not sure on the retainers, guess we will find out after i get in the k-700's
isnt there a way to find out what retainers would work with them? I mean lets say i started over and bought new springs, locks, and retainers id still be like 250 bucks cheaper than JBP.
Phlatcav wrote:isnt there a way to find out what retainers would work with them? I mean lets say i started over and bought new springs, locks, and retainers id still be like 250 bucks cheaper than JBP.
But not quite as HD. The easiest way to make sure they'll fit your retainers is to do some measuring. Their should be specs for the spring dimensions listed, and you can measure the retainers to compare...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Number of Springs Per Valve: Single
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.265
Coil Bind Height (in): 1.050
Damper Spring Included: Yes
Spring Rate (lbs/in): 464
Inside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 0.885
Inside Diameter of Inner Spring (in): 0.885
Valve Spring Style: Standard
The stock Retainer is right at 1"
So I am guessing no or close enouph
I think i found the right retainers! Take note of the lock style...
Brand: K-Motion
Product Line: K-Motion Steel Valve Spring Retainers
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.240
Retainer Material: Steel
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Spring Style: Standard
Retainer Style: Standard
Outside Diameter of Middle Spring (in): 0.875
Inside Diameter of Inner Spring (in): 0.650
The problem is are they compatable with the 7mm locks? That's the problem I keep running into.
Phlatcav, those are made for dual/triple valve springs, but the specs look like they may work.
MadJack, aren't the locks vertually universal as long as you get the right angle? They will have different installed heights, yes (as PhlatCav knows very well
), but there seems to be no set standard for measuring te effect on the installed height...
Personally, I'd venture to say that they would work as long as you got 7* 7mm locks with the 'lip' at the top (so we don't have another fiasco with the Crane rockers), but it's not my money...
Also, the retainers may have an effect on the installed height as well, but once again, there doesn't seem to be any standard as to how to measure it...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
i hate vavlesprings....
There has got to be someone with a finished 2200 with a cam and 1:6 rockers that knows about the springs.
Well the springs are a whole 40 bucks so im gonna buy them and test them with my stock retainers and locks, that fails ill pick up the retainers and testt hem with the stock locks, and hell if all fails ill find the right keepers and get it done at a csot still 250 bucks below JBP.
Trial and error i guess
Phlatcav wrote:Well the springs are a whole 40 bucks so im gonna buy them and test them with my stock retainers and locks, that fails ill pick up the retainers and testt hem with the stock locks, and hell if all fails ill find the right keepers and get it done at a csot still 250 bucks below JBP.
Trial and error i guess
Good luck man, but I'm not so sure it's going to work...
The springs are too wide for the stock retainers. Although, my Mantapart springs are narrower at the top (~1") than the rest of the body (~1.220"), so maybe those will be too and will work out with the stock retainers after all. If they don't, I'd do a little more searching for retainers, as I'm sure there are better options than those that you listed
Also, remember, Madjack gave those specs at a 1.700" installed height, which you won't have. The installed height with the 2200 is something like 1.600", meaning you'll have a MUCH higher seat pressure, and ~.100" LESS lift (aka it won't work with your cam and rockers). You'd need to use 95-97 valves and probably still have the seats machined down like he said earlier. Then you would also need longer pushrods to maintain sufficient geometry...
MadJack, how do you calculate total lift from cam lift and rocker ratio?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Since I'm home sick with nothing to do, I looked around a little...Some springs that cought my eye from Crane:
These are:
Outer Diameter Top 0.967
Inner Diameter Top 0.636
Outer Diameter Bottom 1.096
Inner Diameter Bottom 0.765
Damper NO
Seat Pressure @ Installed Height 80 lbs. @ 1.640
Open Pressure and Height 210 lbs. @ 1.040
Coil Bind 1.000
Average Spring Rate 208 lbs./in.
Maximum Net Lift 0.620
Only possible problem I see is that they are 'conical', and I'm not sure how much fatter they would be at the middle, which has a VERY slight chance of hitting eachother the way our springs sit at an angle...
However, they have a better chance of fitting the stock retainers, and they would allow you to install them with the stock valves and pushrods. Installed pressure at 1.600" would be 88-89 lbs...almost stock
So, I'd venture to say they could even be used with the stock lifters...allowing .580" lift (not sure if the increased lifter acceleration would warrent HD lifters though, probably not).
So, possibly a spring that would allow .580" lift on an otherwise stock 2200...hmmm...yummy
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
OEM springs are conical. What springs does mantapart have? Are they a good replacement?
This whole vale spring this is pissing me way the hell off.
Madjack you said to use the K-motion springs right? Can i use the 2200 valves or no? I keep trying to research but can come up with no good outlook. You guys are giving me a lot of info then taking back and saying it wont work
.
OHV notec wrote:Since I'm home sick with nothing to do, I looked around a little...Some springs that cought my eye from Crane:
These are:
Outer Diameter Top 0.967
Inner Diameter Top 0.636
Outer Diameter Bottom 1.096
Inner Diameter Bottom 0.765
Damper NO
Seat Pressure @ Installed Height 80 lbs. @ 1.640
Open Pressure and Height 210 lbs. @ 1.040
Coil Bind 1.000
Average Spring Rate 208 lbs./in.
Maximum Net Lift 0.620
Only possible problem I see is that they are 'conical', and I'm not sure how much fatter they would be at the middle, which has a VERY slight chance of hitting eachother the way our springs sit at an angle...
However, they have a better chance of fitting the stock retainers, and they would allow you to install them with the stock valves and pushrods. Installed pressure at 1.600" would be 88-89 lbs...almost stock So, I'd venture to say they could even be used with the stock lifters...allowing .580" lift (not sure if the increased lifter acceleration would warrent HD lifters though, probably not).
So, possibly a spring that would allow .580" lift on an otherwise stock 2200...hmmm...yummy
God please let that be right! But i doubt the springs would make contact or even be close, they would have to be lots wider that even the JBP ones cuz there is about 1" from spring to spring.
I need an honest answer before I go nuts here.
260 bucks!!!!!!! Fark that I quit
Ok this is my last post about these damn springs.
I need some info so i can finish this crap. I need all the stock specs of the 2200 valvesprings/locks/retainers , the spring pressure at X installed height and what the max they can handle. THEN im gonna send out a spring/lock/and retainer to crane and comp cams to have a set matched.
Please help with that info if you can fellas...
