alright well i'm ready to start buying parts for my 2200 build. its kind of a budget build, i'm not going for insane power, i only want around 250whp which i find easily obtainable with what i want to do.
I have everything needed to boost my car, right now i just want to build the motor before i try to boost it.
so far i want to lower the compression to 8.5:1 (if this is a bad idea, let me know reasons why )
The best deal so far I have found on pistons and rods were at
Import Performance
i want to over bored .020"...or get the bore 89.5mm.
has anyone had any expierence with Import Performance?
9:1 compression is good enough...you don't need to go any lower but it is up to you.
.020 over is fine but remember you have to get it machined to fit your block properly because it is a wider piston compared to your OEM piston.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Don't forget all the bearings, gaskets, seals, assembly lube, machine work you will need to complete your project.
Expect to spend well over $1K on the engine.
don't worry, i know that i'll be spending some money on this, i already have about $1500 saved up for this. so its cool.
the machine work i am getting done at a good deal, and i know what is involved with it.
i do want to throw alot of boost at this, and will (have) been running on megasquirt. and soon i'm gonna throw Msn&s on there.
If you have control of your ignition (looks like you're shooting for it), go with the higher compression pistons. This will give you a little more 'pre-turbo' torque and improve driveability even more.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
would you say keep the stock 9:1 compression? or even bump it up a little more
I'd say, as long as you're running full stand-alone, go for 10:1
Look at what the ECOs are putting down...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
lol
hmm that kind of scares me though, but its a good thought. but wouldn't it be way harder to tune? especially on full standalone, i don't really have a base line to run 10:1 and boost
Volumeking333 wrote:lol
hmm that kind of scares me though, but its a good thought. but wouldn't it be way harder to tune? especially on full standalone, i don't really have a base line to run 10:1 and boost
Yeah, it would be harder to get an acceptable tune, as you have less room for error with the higher CR (but that's why you have a standalone in the first place, to do what you normally would consider impossible
). But, imagine the gains you could achieve, the broad powerband, and the satisfaction of accomplishment (not to mention the evil side of you that will REALLY appreciate the look on the turbo DOHC J owner's face you wiped the track with
).
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
lol, damn it now i gotta do more searching and reading
...i'll see what i can find on the topic and make a decision..you make some very very good points. i guess i never thought about it that way
to bad the only turbo j i've seen at the track was a 3.1l v6
..thing was impressive
I am probaly going the same route is you with my sunfire so let me know how it all works out man
alright, after some researching (no where near done) i just got one question now..
say i were to run 10:1 compression with boost, wouldn't i run into a problem with fuel, liek the octane? i beleive i forgot to mention that i want to be running on pump gas (93 octane or lower) wouldn't the lower compression be better for this?
Volumeking333 wrote:alright, after some researching (no where near done) i just got one question now..
say i were to run 10:1 compression with boost, wouldn't i run into a problem with fuel, liek the octane? i beleive i forgot to mention that i want to be running on pump gas (93 octane or lower) wouldn't the lower compression be better for this?
Yeah, you would need to run 93 Octane but if you have the opportunity to buy new pistons, just stay at 9:1 compression...that would be easier for you to tune and you might be able to use a slightly lower Octane Fuel.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Volumeking333 wrote:alright, after some researching (no where near done) i just got one question now..
say i were to run 10:1 compression with boost, wouldn't i run into a problem with fuel, liek the octane? i beleive i forgot to mention that i want to be running on pump gas (93 octane or lower) wouldn't the lower compression be better for this?
Ah, don't listen to these downers. You can still run pump gas on the higher compression boosted motor, you just have to pull some timing (which is why I said that you'd have to have full control of your ignition). It would also be necessary to make sure your cooling system is up to the task, your combustion chambers are highly polished, your spark plugs don't have any exposed threads, and you have a good head gasket. Lower compression is only to make tuning easier (to leave a big margin for error). But this way, you can dump in some race gas on the weekend, add back some timing, and know what a drag car feels like
Remember, ECOs are 10:1 and have successfully run 15+ psi with the stock NA computer even.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
OHV Notec wrote:You can still run pump gas on the higher compression boosted motor, you just have to pull some timing (which is why I said that you'd have to have full control of your ignition)
What he said. Most people tell you not to do it though cause NO ONE messes with ignition timing around here. (of course I'm exaggerating though
)
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJHK (The JBO Negro) wrote:OHV Notec wrote:You can still run pump gas on the higher compression boosted motor, you just have to pull some timing (which is why I said that you'd have to have full control of your ignition)
What he said. Most people tell you not to do it though cause NO ONE messes with ignition timing around here. (of course I'm exaggerating though )
Yeah, and it's too bad, since you can often get more power through tuning than bolt-ons. Volumeking here is well aware of this though, as he's been megasquirting it for a while now with very good improvements on a basically stock engine IIRC.
For instance the thread "how'd GM do it?" down the page...people don't seem to understand it's more than just bolt-ons being added.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
lol actually, i'm not the person you were thinking of with good improvements..i did have my car running on megasquirt before winter it ran for like almost a month i believe on Megasquirt, then i had a slight problem..i burned up the injector drivers on the board from the low impedence injectors. and the car has been sitting since...its been really cold and the car can sit in "storage" until i get this motor worked out. but i will be running MS on it again, including ignition using the DIS info exicidum showed me in a previous thread awhile ago. its been tested and it does work, just requires some things..
but
back on the topic, anyone know anything about effective compression ratio and the octane of gas needed??
say my effective compression ratio is "going" to be 18.884:1....thats with 10:1 compression and 13psi of boost.. i calculated that using a formula i found online
((boost psi/14.7)+1) x motor compression
this was found on Motorsports digest....what grade fuel would i need to run with that much effective compression ratio?
Haha, sounds like you should've gotten the v3.0 board
I don't think you can say that you'll need XX fuel for XX.xx CR... there are other variables (such as timing) that will need to be factored in, and every engine would probably be quite a bit different due to things like combustion chamber design and spark plug heat range.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
yeah i was thinking about that now, taking the loss and getting the v3.0 board and going from there, but i don't know yet, i don't think its a total loss yet, and i'll be testing it in the next few weeks
Quote:
I don't think you can say that you'll need XX fuel for XX.xx CR...
yeah i was thinking that also , probably the reason why i couldn't find any info on the subject...
the higher compression scares me a little, it does sound promising, but scary.
i'm getting the pro's and con's of both lower compression and higher compression. and both seem good choices, but higher comp. gives me a higher chance of messing something up
kind of.
Volumeking333 wrote:i'm getting the pro's and con's of both lower compression and higher compression. and both seem good choices, but higher comp. gives me a higher chance of messing something up kind of.
The only pro to lower compression is easier tuning
. The only con to higher compression is more difficult tuning
. Whereas, there are many cons to lower compression, as there are many pros to higher compression.
It just comes down to making the effort to get the added performance.
I'd run higher compression, but I also want to keep the engine specs as close to stock as possible in case I ever want to try my hand at designing kits or something...
Honestly, if you're only looking to make a weekend drag racer that needs to get you to work and back every day, 9.0:1 is enough. But if you're looking to do any other form of racing, or competitive heads-up drag racing, you should probably shoot for the 10:1.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
lol. what i want is a reliably fast 2200. part of it is to prove a point, the other part is for the expierence. I'm 17 and have a chance to do this build for a school project
..
i want this to be able to have fun on the road, and the drag strip. but straight line racing isn't everything so i want something that will have power all around.
lol i guess i want a happy median, i'm not going all out here but i'm not slacking and want some power out of this little pushrod motor.
Alright then, 9.5:1 it is
...that's a perfect medium, right? A little better driveability, a little more torque, and little easier to tune...
I still think the torque curve with 10.0:1 and 10+ psi would be ... amazing
.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Shaune Drake wrote:would 9.5:1 be good for running a 50 shot of nitrous also.
You're building your engine just for a 50 shot? That's kind of pointless IMHO, as you can do that with the stock motor...
What are you looking to do with the car? Goals?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
