Just curious if the 2.0 XE euro spec engine is the same basic block and head as a US spec Ecotec engine.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/TP208_Kit/TP208_Kit.htm
If you spend some time wondering around the site they offer some pretty interesting "kits" for the 2.0 ecotec.
For example, they offer a full 290+ HP N/A race kit based on using 100 low lead race gas, including a dry sump, ITB, rods, cams, valve springs, etc..
god that would be sexy but did you see the "dyno chart" I hope that wasnt intened to be real.
ITB's arent really done much also 290 would be really hard there are very few k seris honda motors whit v tec makeing that kinda of power and those blocks are crazy strong.
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
290hp isnt much, read the freaking GM build book. the parts needed for 400hp are pretty much what this kit upgrades. Pistons, rods and head studs. These guys are just using higher compression and other goodies instead of the JBO norm of just throwing a turbo at it.
Owen Stampflee wrote:290hp isnt much, read the freaking GM build book. the parts needed for 400hp are pretty much what this kit upgrades. Pistons, rods and head studs. These guys are just using higher compression and other goodies instead of the JBO norm of just throwing a turbo at it.
there is no way your gonna make 400 HP NA. In the build book they use a turbo not ITB. do you understand what kind of voulmetic offeciy that would be. well over 100% which last time I checked is impposaible whit out a turbo. you guys scare me sometimes.
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
unless you count nitrous, there is no way it will make 400 hp all motor. Not happening.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
I smell a jcavi post of the week in AG!
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
you were talking about block strength in your first post, now you're talking about power...
get your story straight.
Owen Stampflee wrote:290hp isnt much, read the freaking GM build book. the parts needed for 400hp are pretty much what this kit upgrades. Pistons, rods and head studs. These guys are just using higher compression and other goodies instead of the JBO norm of just throwing a turbo at it.
well I assumed you were on the same page as power considering puting a turbo on wouldnt help your engine block get any stronger
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
250 n/a whp (somewhere around 290 crank, which is what they're advertising i believe) isn't out of the question with the eco.... However by that point you might need so much compression and ignition advance that it wouldn't really be a street motor anymore. Unfortunately 2.2 liters is 2.2 liters and you are bound by volumetric efficiency... this is where the old "there's no replacement for displacement" saying still rings true. Maybe with a 2.4 shortblock more is possible but at the same time its just a theory.
I'm absolutely certain that you could do 220 or so and still have it be streetable, but good luck making these work with a stock ecu, this would be a "standalone required" scenario unless hptuners finally comes out. The other thing i'm wondering is if these would clear the hood on a cav... and seems to me that you'd have to cut an odd-looking scoop near the front of the hood just to keep these from sucking in nice hot radiator-air.
I dunno, as much as I love ITB's, i'd leave an n/a setup like that for a car that's VERY light, like the crx, or a miata, something well under 2300 lbs so that 200-220 hp is worth more than it is on a 2500-2900lbs j-body. Obviously there are other venues besides drag racing where these might be more useful, but you'd still be getting eaten alive by turbo cars with them.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:250 n/a whp (somewhere around 290 crank, which is what they're advertising i believe) isn't out of the question with the eco.... However by that point you might need so much compression and ignition advance that it wouldn't really be a street motor anymore. Unfortunately 2.2 liters is 2.2 liters and you are bound by volumetric efficiency... this is where the old "there's no replacement for displacement" saying still rings true. Maybe with a 2.4 shortblock more is possible but at the same time its just a theory.
I'm absolutely certain that you could do 220 or so and still have it be streetable, but good luck making these work with a stock ecu, this would be a "standalone required" scenario unless hptuners finally comes out. The other thing i'm wondering is if these would clear the hood on a cav... and seems to me that you'd have to cut an odd-looking scoop near the front of the hood just to keep these from sucking in nice hot radiator-air.
I dunno, as much as I love ITB's, i'd leave an n/a setup like that for a car that's VERY light, like the crx, or a miata, something well under 2300 lbs so that 200-220 hp is worth more than it is on a 2500-2900lbs j-body. Obviously there are other venues besides drag racing where these might be more useful, but you'd still be getting eaten alive by turbo cars with them.
as for the hood clearance take a look at the skunk2 rsx they have a nice little air scoop for the TB's that you could probably get away with.
one more thing why would you need a stand alone or a flash? I mean for staters your fuel would get ten kinds of screwed up but that can be fixed with an safc. I would imagine that as long as your engine is in good runnnig order and the TB's are opeing correctly you would only need on MAF signal. all that really leaves is TPS obviously not a problem and IAT also not a problem. so what is the major concearn?
Im
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
huge cams, huge compression, and lots of flow will throw a stock eco computer into fits. look at how well the the original LZM cams worked... they'd either throw the ecu into fits or make some decent power... you'll need even bigger cams to make 250whp.
besides, being able to actually tune the car will net you more than a few hp.
I considered ITBs for my nitrous ecotec project, but the extra complexity scares the @!#$e out of me... so it'll be a custom fabbed log style manifold and a 75mm throttle body. Not to mention that it'll be a bunch cheaper. ($100 for the tb, $500 to have the manifold fabbed... I got some hookups).
When all my stuff is here, I'll see how well the stock eco computer likes 11-11.5:1 compression (custom 11:1 wiseco pistons, 0.010 undersized cometic gasket), lzm cams + cam gears, headwork, and a bunch of bolt ons before wiring up the tec3 (unless someone can recommend a better standalone thats cheaper and includes the coils + crank trigger setup).
Someone should start making kits like this for US engines... just write a big cheque and have proven gains, no mix matching of parts.
you wouldnt have to use the new cams and changed comp. you could go average bolt ons with the ITB's not sure how it would work though
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
Jcavi wrote:you wouldnt have to use the new cams and changed comp. you could go average bolt ons with the ITB's not sure how it would work though
putting ITB's on a stock motor with bolt ons is like putting running shoes on a one-legged paraplegic. There is absolutely no point to adding ITB's until the motor is running high compression and some pretty serious cams. I'm not saying that ITB's are for full race only but using them to dress up an otherwise stock motor with some bolt-ons would be pretty foolish. BUT, you are most likely correct in that if they were bolted on bone stock, the stock ecu would most likely be able to correct for it. However, they aren't worth doing to a stock motor, and I made my previous statement with that assumption in mind.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:Jcavi wrote:you wouldnt have to use the new cams and changed comp. you could go average bolt ons with the ITB's not sure how it would work though
putting ITB's on a stock motor with bolt ons is like putting running shoes on a one-legged paraplegic. There is absolutely no point to adding ITB's until the motor is running high compression and some pretty serious cams. I'm not saying that ITB's are for full race only but using them to dress up an otherwise stock motor with some bolt-ons would be pretty foolish. BUT, you are most likely correct in that if they were bolted on bone stock, the stock ecu would most likely be able to correct for it. However, they aren't worth doing to a stock motor, and I made my previous statement with that assumption in mind.
yeah I was pondering that. It would probably be hell in bad weather those thigns feed rigth to the head dont they nothing to keep leaves and other crap from geetign in.
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
they make all sorts of things for ITB setups....... from simple screens for the hornes, to exotic carbon fiber plenum boxes........
if matched correctly to the engine (IE throttle plate size, runner length) a ITB setup on a stock motor (with the right tuning software) could produce great numbers. I've seen a number of Honda setups with the ITB and Hondata....... from bone stock B16's, to Hybrid K20/K24's........
now I'm not saying this should be anyones First mod..... just saying its never a waste of time.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
The C20XE is NOT the same engine as the US Spec Ecotec.
The C20XE is a 16v version of the 8v 2.0L OHC engines in the Pontiac Sunbirds. You can get a C20XE in the Daewoo Nubria here in the US. This engine is still available in '06 Suzuki Forenza's and is NOT the same as the Ecotec here in the USA.
Dave (2 UNIQ) wrote:so your saying that the gm biuld book is lieing???
who said the build book was lying and where?
I have said numerous times that the build book is wrong. I know of 4, thats right 4, Ecotecs running well over GMs supposed limit on the rods and pistons. Thats just one of a few errors that are in the book. That book is not perfect or useful in 90% of situations.
jhill98 wrote:The C20XE is NOT the same engine as the US Spec Ecotec.
The C20XE is a 16v version of the 8v 2.0L OHC engines in the Pontiac Sunbirds. You can get a C20XE in the Daewoo Nubria here in the US. This engine is still available in '06 Suzuki Forenza's and is NOT the same as the Ecotec here in the USA.
I am SO glad that I'm not the only one who knows this. Just because it says Ecotec, or Ecopower for that matter, does not mean its the same thing as our motors. In looking at that link I don't see a single mention of Ecotec or Ecopower though so I don't know why there has even been any discussion about this fitting.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
you can make anything fit....... aluminum is weldable.....
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
