coil packs - Performance Forum

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coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:14 AM
I'm just wondering if anybody has ever replaced their factory coil packs with something like the msd packs and also if they fit inside the cover where the factory ones are or if you had to add plug wires I'm getting ready to get the msd dis2 box and I'm going to go ahead and replace the coil packs while I'm at it just trying to get some idea how bad it's going to be to swap over btw its a 2002 z24 with 2.4 5speed car

Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:31 AM
I replaced my coils with the MSD coil packs on my 2.2 a few weeks ago. Love them.




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Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:43 AM
Yea its a simple swap nuttin xtra. I swaped mine for msd coil paks on my 2200 lub also
Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:42 PM
so the 2200 is setup the same way huh any one have pics of the coil packs mounted inside the cover
Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:46 PM
Jesse 02 wrote:so the 2200 is setup the same way huh any one have pics of the coil packs mounted inside the cover


Nope. On the 2.2 and 2200, the coil packs bolt to the ICM on the back side of the motor, with the plug wires that go up to the plugs. LD9's and Eco's done have plug wires, they are different.




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Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:04 PM
thats what I was thinking but I guess I read your post wrong so does that mean that I'll loose the cover and add plug wires or does someone make coil packs to replace the factory ones in the same location
Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:42 PM
no they don't make a replacment coil that goes under the idi cover, you will need to run plug wires if you use msd coils



Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:44 PM
Yup. And then it's real simple. You install the MSD coils, remove the IDI cover completely, and run good plug wires. Don't use MSD plug wires.




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Re: coil packs
Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:55 PM
ooh, so that's how you do it, i might just Gut my IDI cover (cuz i like the look) and tuck everything off to the side or sumthing...i was wondering if they actually made ignition upgrades for the 2.4s, guess they dont like us lol



Re: coil packs
Friday, October 28, 2005 5:20 AM
anyone have pics with the idi cover gone and plug wires ran I'm thinking that it might look kinda cool and if you was to polish the outside of the cam journals that would look different also
Re: coil packs
Friday, October 28, 2005 12:01 PM
best place price wise to get the msd blaster coils

Re: coil packs
Friday, October 28, 2005 2:15 PM
Jesse 02 wrote:best place price wise to get the msd blaster coils


Summit Racing.


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Re: coil packs
Friday, October 28, 2005 3:13 PM
thanks I'll check it out
Re: coil packs
Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:50 PM
www.turbotechracing.com If you can send us a link of someone else cheaper we can beat their price
We have a lot in stock


-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com

Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
Re: coil packs
Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:11 PM
but from turbotechracing.com the last line in the ad states
"Special Application For GM DIS Coil Ignitions. Sold as set (2 packs.) Does not fit ecotec or 2.4L motors."
so are you saying that it will fit on the 2.4 with a little bit of changes
Re: coil packs
Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:13 PM
Nology wires..... yummmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!! Built in capacitors! WHAT! Grounded! WHAT!

Scott




When I boost, you boost, we boost
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have been banned from NEJBODY.
You've displayed wayyy too many acts of pushing people to their limits.
It's never cool to tear people down for what they want to do.
NEJBODY is a team. We're not the same as JBO where everyone bashes on eachother.
I'm surprised you show up to our meets after half of the things you say on here.
Re: coil packs
Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:31 PM
FACT: capacitor built into a wire will never been on the level as an amplifier or even an external piece like the power cores.

coil packs from msd... while good products, unless its time for a tune up, youre not really gonna gain anything.

msd built those packs to be able to withstand the power the msd puts out, aka increase longevity of high power usage.

only thing you are doing is adding color and restoring lost efficiency from old stock coil packs....



Re: coil packs
Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:44 PM
A capacitor its basically an electronic shock absorber to dampen fluctuations in a wire.


--------------------------------------
I have an 03 Cavalier 5spd. <img src=http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/tinytim12333/timmy.gif> TIMMAY
Re: coil packs
Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:34 PM
Jesse 02 wrote:but from turbotechracing.com the last line in the ad states
"Special Application For GM DIS Coil Ignitions. Sold as set (2 packs.) Does not fit ecotec or 2.4L motors."
so are you saying that it will fit on the 2.4 with a little bit of changes

It is a direct fit for the 2.2 OHV that is why that is there. Obviously they are not a direct replacement for the 2.4 or ecotec. You can use them with a little wire and a set of spark plug wires


-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com

Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
Re: coil packs
Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:20 AM
Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:only thing you are doing is adding color and restoring lost efficiency from old stock coil packs....


You really think? You think that our DIS delivers as good a spark as a MSD blaster with nology hot wires, or the power core? Some how I doubt that.

TinyTim12333 wrote: A capacitor its basically an electronic shock absorber to dampen fluctuations in a wire.


gee... ya think genious? Those fluctuations are part of what kills the efficiency of the spark to begin with.


I'm not tryin to get into a pissing match with anyone here, and I know event knows his shiznyt, but somehow I think there would definately be some power gains, especially in forced induction or nitrous applications with using the blaster packs and either the nology hot wires or the power cores with real good wires.

Scott


When I boost, you boost, we boost
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have been banned from NEJBODY.
You've displayed wayyy too many acts of pushing people to their limits.
It's never cool to tear people down for what they want to do.
NEJBODY is a team. We're not the same as JBO where everyone bashes on eachother.
I'm surprised you show up to our meets after half of the things you say on here.
Re: coil packs
Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:21 AM
RaGiN Z wrote:
Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:only thing you are doing is adding color and restoring lost efficiency from old stock coil packs....


You really think? You think that our DIS delivers as good a spark as a MSD blaster with nology hot wires, or the power core? Some how I doubt that.


MSD DIS-2 delivers enough spark alone to satisfy cars with upwards of 1000 HP...

yes, enough spark and multiple sparks at that, down low, to handle cars putting out power with triple the fuel we use...


now if you wanna talk stock ignition....

if you read up on coil packs, the main difference is more winds of material able to handle higher voltage

accell runs 70 winds of wire to handle 45,000 volts.

msd runs 80 winds of wire to handle 40,000 volts...

accell pushes the limits of their packs more so than msd does...

coil packs dont produce power, they merely transfer it.

stock coil packs are lower, in the 50-60 winds range handling 35,000 volts or so.

think of it as the more muscle a human has, the more weight he or she can throw around in the gym...


capacitors are capacitors... its like the ones we use to compliment amplifiers in audio....


now heres where the logic comes in. at most a full amplifier like MSD or CRANE CAMS fireball setups add maybe 2-6HP in naturally aspirated cars.... been tested time and time again over the years. and this is with stock engines may i add.

thats a FULL ignition setup.

msd throws out about 105 - 115 milliJoules per spark. ANNNND multiple sparks.... which is where you get alot of your power downlow. the multiple sparks.


now with 450$ worth of parts putting out 2-6HP

a capacitor that costs 50$ isnt gonna add no where near anything comensurate to a full amplified ignition setup.





as it stands all these gimmick wires setups and such can be replicated with simple legit mods like an engine grounding kit....

does the same thing. except for the ENTIRE CAR. more to gain than in JUST one area.

also if one wanted more spark, simply switching to a denso or ngk iridium plug which has a WAY smaller electrode (stock being around 1.7mm vs iridium being 0.4 - 0.7mm), meaning less energy lost through the medium (the electrode) will produce the same thing. slightly larger spark.


at best lower priced capacitors give better gas mileage. grounded wires the same really. its been tested over and over by different companies. unless the grounds in your car are so bad and rusted out ( and cavaliers gain very little on grounding kits besides brighter lights and marginally faster startups) ... then a grounded wire isnt gonna give you any power thats noticeable.

neither will a capacitor ridden wire. the gm setup is pretty strong from the factory as it is.

if you want power you have to increase spark a decent bit, along with adding air and fuel. in the upper rpms is where most gain 2-6 hp from a FULL ignition setup.

a capacitor is no where in the league of a full ignition setup. nor will it produce the same power as an ignition amplifier.



however you will gain, smoother idle, better fuel economy, and slightly better combustion.

but remember in this game of hobbies, you get what you pay for. power costs, how much do you REALLY want?


for someone that is boosted, if you wanna get into that game, using capacitors over an MSD would be a flacid at best choice....

ever try to chop a tree down using roman candles or would you use a stick of dynamite?


just like the wires, the weaker may give a better light show, but if you spent all the money to boost your car, do you want a light show,

OR

something thats actually gonna CONSISTENTLY and EFFICIENTLY .....'scuse my language but to quote a video game called mercenaries.... BLOW SH_T UP!????

your call.


but like said, coil packs are merely a medium, they dont boost power contrary to the myths... they do however RESTORE lost power. which is the same thing that spark plugs and wires do.

ONLY until you start reaching 4-500 HP cars will a plug or wire give you 5-10HP gains...

on stock power, or even up to 200 its about as even as tuner tube mods.
















Re: coil packs
Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:24 AM
also to add to that....

if all these gimmick wires and capacitors were the in deal..... why arent any of the top cars runnin em?

not even top cars, just check out any local track and look at the faster people...

turn on speed channel.....

look at a jdm option dvd.



companies put out alot of garbage solely becuase it WILL sell to someone. i;ve bought my share of trash throughout the years and learn from my mistakes



Re: coil packs
Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:40 AM
i just feel I should add that coil out put (normally) only increases with secondary resistance. A 200 HP Engine doest not need 1 ohm wires, or 100v slammed into the primary. As secondary resistance increases (bad wire, excessive plug gap, high rpm), then KV output will increase.

I know kind of a random rant but my point is that replacing the stock ignition system on a basically stock engine is sort of a waste of money.


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Re: coil packs
Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:30 AM
jimmythekid1 wrote:i just feel I should add that coil out put (normally) only increases with secondary resistance. A 200 HP Engine doest not need 1 ohm wires, or 100v slammed into the primary. As secondary resistance increases (bad wire, excessive plug gap, high rpm), then KV output will increase.

I know kind of a random rant but my point is that replacing the stock ignition system on a basically stock engine is sort of a waste of money.


in that regard, i'll say from having the msd-dis2, its only a waste of money

A) if you plan to do intake and exhaust ONLY and then stop....

B) your car is basically a cosmetic hobby only (aka person will spend more money on paint and body kit than they will on suspension or performance)

or

C) they are running lean.



theres never wrong with buying pieces to a puzzle, when you can afford it. most stock ignition systems arent as strong up top, so if one is still on a stock engine, and plan to keep modding. its money well spent. its a legit mod anyone in automotive SHOULD KNOW it works on pretty much any vehicle regardless of trim (different degrees for different mod levels of course ) and as said if you plan to keep modding, then it will def add more of a percentage of gains for every boltons and other engine mods you add to the car hence forth.



Re: coil packs
Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:15 PM
this topic went down quick so one more question to see where it goes if I just go to a msd dis-2 will the stock coils handle the extra load very long if not then that will probrably be when I switch to the blaster coil packs I just wasn't sure that the stock coils would be of any help with the dis box I mean is the stock coils going to make going with the dis-2 worthless
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