i have decided to build up my 2200 so i can run more boost . here is what im buying so far ....
1.eagle rods
2.wiesco forged pistons
3.clevite rod bearings
4. cosmetic head gasket
5.upgraded pushrods (from howell auto)
6.s/s valves
i know that the 2200 is almost 1.6 on the rockers so is the roller rocker a good purchase or just waste of money? will the stock rockers hold? im hopeing for 15-20psi of boost but probably 12-15.


13's or blowning it. one way or the other!

Definitely, the Crane Roller Rockers are a good idea for boost. Infact the 1mm oversized s.s. valves would be good also, especially with a good P&P job.

here i made this list in a post awhile back, this will easily hold the boost you are lookin at and probably alot more... readt through it some things are more important than other Unfortunetly i have yet to buy any of this, and this list does not include turbo parts.

Oyyci wrote:1. Eagle 2.2 OHV Connecting Rod-$350.00-Howell
2. Crane Roller Rocker Set for 98 up GM 2.2-$244.24-Howell
3. Crane GM 2.2 OHV Push Rods 98-up-$69.95-Howell
4. ARP Head Stud Kit-$159.95-JTuners
5. Car Customs Competition Valves 1mm Oversize-$100.00-Car Customs
6. Car Customs Upper/Lower Engine Mount Kit-$65.00-Car Customs
8. Front & Rear Transmission Mounts-$48.99-A+ Performance
9. Oil Cooler-$123.99-A+ Performance
10. Apexi S-AFC II Controller-$409.99-A+ Performance
11. B&M Racing Short Throw Shifter-$125.99-A+ Performance
12. 62 mm Throttle Body-$240.00+$100.00core charge-RSM
13. RSM Ported Intake Manifold-$200.00+$150.00core charge-RSM
14. WiseCo 2.2L Forged Steel Pistons-$596.00-JBP
15. Forced Induction 2.2L LN2 OHV Cam-280.00-JBP
16. MSD Fuel Pump-$129.99-RK Sport
17. Magnecor 8.5mm Igition Wire Set-$49.99-Gravana
18. Copper Head Gasket-126.40-JBP
19. SCE O-Ring Kit-$63.20-JBP
20. 2.2/2200 Crankshaft Lightening/Knife-Edge Service-$231.20-JBP
21. 2.2/2200 Crankshaft Balancing-$120.00-JBP

$3734.88 Dang this bugger better haul @ss

http://www.cardomain.com/id/oyyci
http://photobucket.com/albums/d170/Oyyci/

so what is the more important things your talking about ? ive got the things ive listed above and also a apex-i controller,p/p head ,frnt mnt intercooler . so def on the roller rockers ?


13's or blowning it. one way or the other!

how much of a pain in the ass is o-ringing the 2200?




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

Yes the Crane rockers will give you a nice gain, and are worth the money over the stock rockers, much more durable than the stockers.

If your interested, i have a set of Crane gold race rockers that are on my 2200 now, along with the Comp Studs and a brand new set of Crane pushrods from Howell, that ill make you a deal on, also i have an SAFC-2 that i just removed and am wanting to sell.

Email me if your interested and i can send you some pics if you want.





Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.


Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.

how do you order them from crane i cant find them on the sight do you have 2 call

You can order them from Howell Automotive, from Summit Racing, from Jeg's or anyone else who carries Crane Cams products. Howell is the only one that sell's them in kit form, anyone else you would have to buy a set of 16 rocker arms (sell the 8 extra rockers) and buy the studs. For more info, read 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List

Thanks i just ordered them from howell

The crane rockers are a direct fit right?

Hey, MadJack...

I thank you for the tech I got from your post on rockers and springs, but what rockers are the most direct fit on the '94-'97 2.2
w/ and w/o the guideplates? What's the max lift the stock spring/valve combo on those years will take? And since I don't have a knock sensor, need I worry about pushrod deflection w/ stock pushrods and untouched pushrod holes. I know I'm enterin' this pool with a
cannonball, and it might be rude, but us LN2-pwrd S-10 folk need to know stuff like this too. We're not all flashy, impractical jerks...
some of us just want to get the " the most " from the least, like good mileage and durability with maybe a little more power to boot.
So, would you help me? Please? I may have an S-10 bod but it's with a J-car heart.

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Quote:

We're not all flashy, impractical jerks...

Ummm... The easiest path to highest power is to install a V8! Then give your LN2 to a Cavalier owner.

-->Slow

slowolej wrote:

Quote:

We're not all flashy, impractical jerks...

Ummm... The easiest path to highest power is to install a V8! Then give your LN2 to a Cavalier owner.

-->Slow

Or give your transmission to a cavalier owner (Since it's been brought up, do the blocks have the same transmission mounting points between the J and s10?)

As far as the rockers, make sure you get the right studs for the rockers (the info is in the posts). I didn't grind my guideplates at all and never had a problem with deflection if that means anything, but most people do grind them away a smidge. Since you have a 94-97 you need the rockers that are NOT self-guided, although you can always just take out your guideplates if you can only get the self-guided rockers. The rockers are all pretty much the same as far as fitment, but the Cranes have a narrower trunion, which would give more clearance for wider springs. The stock springs on the 94-97 are good past .510" IIRC, check the thread titled "2200 valve springs", I listed clearances for both motors towards the end.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

i am swa[ing a 2200 into it as soon as the motor is buildt

Put simply, YES! Big corporations like to do things with as minimal money loss as possible in mind (Didn't some say elsewhere that the econo models tended to get the short-end of the stick?), so GM made the LN2, like other twisted drivetrain intended engines, with only one trans bellhousing mount-up pattern, which I like to call "corporate transverse". And Slow, I think you missed my point about economy. The thought behind it is this: According to an article I've read lift and duration effects on power with cam selection, you can get power equal to that of of a considerably larger cam with a stock rocker out of a shorter cam with a higher ratio rocker at a lower rpm than with the bigger cam/stock rocker combo. I know this sounds crazy but it came from an Engine Builder mag. I figure if this will require less initial throttle to get it moving and help save fuel. Plus maybe because of the slight increase in overlap, I would have just enough decrease in dynamic compression so I can run a lower octane fuel while I drive this rig normally because for some reason the general didn't see it fit to put a knock sensor in as part of this truck's management system for this engine until '96 with the OBD-II system. And please keep in mind, I'm at wits-end here because I'm working so bucks-down, so no harness swapping.

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

I should also add that GM made three different number castings of the LN2, with minor differences but all the same bellhousing pattern.

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Quote:

And Slow, I think you missed my point about economy.

<sigh>
I didn't miss your point about economy. I've been watching / helping a friend with his '96 2.2 S10. The timing chain failed and ruined the crank. He bought the bare minimum parts to fix it along with a few ancilliaries. His father is a manager at a parts store so he gets good pricing. For reman crank kit, timing set, oil pump and pickup, fan bearing, alternator, some hoses, cheapie clutch and a 5 speed trans mount he's into it for over $1K. None of the parts were in stock at local parts stores. None of the local yards had 4 cyl trucks to raid. And the entire project was a PITA to work on. imo he's never going to get a chance to recoup that cost in fuel savings when you can find V6 trucks for $300 - $500 all day long.

I've been building SBC's for years. With a lightweight truck like the 95+ 2WD S10 I could easily get fuel mileage in the 18 - 22 mpg range. I expect to be close to that with my 302 that I'm installing in my 93 4X4 Blazer. I built that entire engine for just over a grand and it's got some resale value unlike my friend's 2.2.

What you're asking about has been used for years in racing. Essentially it's the equivalent to using a "cheater cam" with small duration, large lift, and fast valve acceleration. When reading articles in car mags you want to keep in mind they often span years worth of technology without saying so. For example, factory roller cams often provide faster valve acceleration than flat tappet cams thereby producing "greater power at the same duration" than the traditional lifter counterparts. Your OE roller cam is like this. Also keep in mind that the valve timing is really what determines where in the rpm range the torque peak occurs in any engine, and that the easiest way to increase peak hp is to move your torque peak to a higher rpm. Achieving higher rpm power levels at lower engine rpm means increasing torque considerably. To make 150 hp at 5000 rpm requires about 157 ft/lbs of torque. To make 150 hp at 3500 rpm requires 225 ft/lbs. That's a large increase from only 2.2 liters displacement.

You said larger ratio rockers can give "power equal to that of of a considerably larger cam with a stock rocker out of a shorter cam with a higher ratio rocker at a lower rpm than with the bigger cam/stock rocker combo." Based on the demonstrated relationship between torque and hp this is really a long way of saying "larger ratio rockers can provide a massive boost in torque." I'm not going to agree when you're looking at switching from 1.5 to 1.6 ratio rockers. While you will see an increase in torque and hp, you won't see the kind of power at stock rpm levels that you'd expect from a cam designed with a +1000 or greater rpm torque and hp peak.

Chasing fuel economy is sort of the same game as chasing more power. The difference is that "more power" often includes "more wasted energy." Your path is slightly different. You want to look for ways to reduce wasted energy and along those lines you should look at what the OE's are doing. First, they're really changing their thinking about valve springs. Aside from combustion, valve springs are the greatest source of heat in an engine. Where there's heat there's wasted energy. So the OE's are determining the minimum spring pressures and rates needed to keep the valves from floating. There's actually a fair amount of savings to be found here. They're also reducing friction. In '98 GM switched the 2.2 to roller fulcrum rockers vs traditional ball pivots. It's good for a few ft/lbs of torque savings. This is something you'll get if you use a roller rocker, even if you keep to the 1.5 ratio. It also wouldn't hurt to consider ceramic coatings and dry film lubricants on internal engine parts. For more incentive to reduce wasted energy, check out this article on the winner of the 2006 Engine Master's challenge: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0603phr_lennart_bergquists_winning_big_block_chevy/

Finally, consider using a turbocharger. Yes, it will take some creativity. But it will also help part throttle mileage if tuned properly. A turbo takes advantage of normally unused heat energy in the exhaust to pump air to the intake. This means some of the work normally done by the engine just to move air is now being done by the turbo. As long as you have a way to adjust the timing appropriately and you don't fall victim to thinking you can't run stoichiometric AFR at low boost levels, you're going to save fuel.

Now... I wonder if you missed my point. Remove your 2.2 and send it to me. I love free parts.
-->Slow

Hey guys does anyone have a picture of what the inside of the valve cover should look like after its been grinded down... Howells link doesnt work anymore. I started grinding down the inside and now i have a tiny bit of oil coming from the opening where the valve cover connects to the intake "resonator". Ive fixed it for now but i was wondering if A) its normal for oil to leak out there and, B) if anyone had a picture of the valve cover done...
Sorry to thread jack

Only 18-22 mpg? Slow, read this fully:

When I got this truck it had a rod knock and a pluged-up cat that revealed itself after the crank swap, needed no-thanks to the pre-owner's grease monkey that failed to get the remnants of the chain and tensioner he replaced out of the pan. The next day I had to clear-out the cat shell just to get it home from my uncle's, and on the spot also added Splitfires & MSD Superconductors. Daily driven it averaged 24.5. 24.5, Slow! Since then I've had to add a new one for emmissions. It dropped to 23.5. Still, the engine clattered like a diesel and no minimal thickness of oil no matter how high didn't help. I figured " cam bearings or lifters ". Later on I found I was right. LN2 oiling piority: lifters & cam, then crank. Then, sure enough, the lifters collapsed. $3000.00 to get a new engine swaped in. Go to put in new Splitfires, and the new one's insulators spin in their hexes by hand! So, it's reuse the still-good old ones. Then the trans starts slipping, and I make a couple of regreted cat-back efforts & add a K&N filter. Down more. Tried to remedy the cat-back issue and now one of the old plugs has blow-by. An odd new ticking & down still more. Replaced them with E3's and nothing. Down to 20 now. Then, I tried to wipe the KAM/Temp in hopes it just needs to readjust to the plugs by pulling the ECM BATT fuse. Bye-bye smooth idle, bye-bye response, and it's now below 18. I at least want 24.5 back, if not better. Did my ECM get an odd light-free glitch? Maybe. Is it wholly to blame? Not likely. Will a daily driver S-10 handle well even with suspension tuning with a V8? No way balance wise. And I can't afford to regear the rear to maxamize mileage with a V8, let alone a aluminum V8 block. Can't even afford that kind of down time because there's no garage available and the neighbors will call the cops. I just want 24.5 avg mpg or better.

Do you understand me now, Slow & everyone?

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Sorry, not to get huffy (no, I don't mean the bike), but it just seems like some people think only in a mindset of a straight line and don't realize how much more can be had from less. I think Mr. Honda said something about that. Now look where he is... in the clouds. Seriously, Honda is now gonna build private jets! Unbelieveable! But really, does everybody understand where I'm coming from? And where I wish to go? Speak up if you can help me do that.

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

man i feel you on the neighbors calling the cop. my neighbors just did that to me like 2 days ago......

Wow. There's a whole lot more to this S10 than meets the eye.
I think I'll move this reply to it's own thread so the guys looking for rocker arm info don't get lost in an S10 with poor mileage.

-->Slow

Actually, the more I think about this S10 the more I think it's better just to contact me off list. This really begs a long conversation about tools, abilities, driving styles, engine source, and goals. It really appears as though you have a basic problem. I'd stop spending money on aftermarket "upgrade" parts until this is worked out.

-->Slow