This is a decent question for peps, with all the GM engines, think there is any possibality of Frankensteining like the Honda's did? and if do, how will you think the gains will be???
Remeber there are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
You mean like taking a head off a 2.4 motor and putting it on a eco bottom end or something like that?
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You can. On the small block and big block engines but I'm not sure about ours.
Doing this is how you get a 383 stroker or a 427 small block. Same with a 402 big block.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jackalope wrote:You can. On the small block and big block engines but I'm not sure about ours.
Doing this is how you get a 383 stroker or a 427 small block. Same with a 402 big block.
The only thing I can think of for our car that might work is putting a 2.0 head on a 2.2 head but that's because I believe they are the exact same head, the difference between the 2 is the bottom end.
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No, there is no frankenstein option right now because the eco, 2.4, and 2.2 OHV are all completely different blocks. Nothing will bolt up or interchange between them.
Its very possible once the 2.4 eco with vvt is out that you could use that head on a 2.2 eco, but that wouldn't make much sense since you'd be losing displacement rather than gaining it. It would be wiser to try and swap the whole engine in that case.
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You can. On the small block and big block engines but I'm not sure about ours. Doing this is how you get a 383 stroker or a 427 small block. Same with a 402 big block.
Well, kind of but not really. The frankenstein honda engine that he talks about is a B20Z block from a CRV with a B16 or B18 Vtec head. Whereas chevy and ford small and big blocks you just swap cranks and bore sizes between engines to achieve different displacement
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Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:No, there is no frankenstein option right now because the eco, 2.4, and 2.2 OHV are all completely different blocks. Nothing will bolt up or interchange between them.
Its very possible once the 2.4 eco with vvt is out that you could use that head on a 2.2 eco, but that wouldn't make much sense since you'd be losing displacement rather than gaining it. It would be wiser to try and swap the whole engine in that case.
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You can. On the small block and big block engines but I'm not sure about ours. Doing this is how you get a 383 stroker or a 427 small block. Same with a 402 big block.
Well, kind of but not really. The frankenstein honda engine that he talks about is a B20Z block from a CRV with a B16 or B18 Vtec head. Whereas chevy and ford small and big blocks you just swap cranks and bore sizes between engines to achieve different displacement
Some of what he said is correct. The 2.4 (Quad) will not work with the 2.2 OHV, or the Ecotec. I'm sure once the 2.4 Ecotec comes out you could cross the head with the 2.2 (ecotec block)
Also there is a Franenstein with the 2.4 (quad), and 2.3 (Quad)
As for the Hondas, swap, it is a LS block (which can be found in many cars, like integra's) and a Vtec head. It is called a LS/Vtec.
Also the V8's making a 383 stroker, and getting a 427, is not head swap, but using different cranks (if I remember correctly). To get a 427 you need a 396 with a 454 crank. For a 383 you have a 350 with a 400 crank. Not the same thing as the frankenstein motor honda's have. They swap heads.
FU Tuning
I was only giving the only examples for chevy I could think of that early in the A.M.
the 427 crank is custom and the block needs tons of work to even get it to clearence
You have always been able to swap heads and get different results on the V-8's Different valve size different valve angle different combistion chamber size and so on
Ask at a swap meet how many people would like an oniginal set of 2.02 Double hump heads. I bet you get a couple takers.
The 2.0 head if I remember corectly is different then the 2.2's and I'm not sure it would fit. I know the 2.4 VVT engine head sould be different too but since I've yet to see one in person I wont speculate. Guess you'll just have to hang in there and wait a littlr while longer.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jackalope wrote:I was only giving the only examples for chevy I could think of that early in the A.M.
the 427 crank is custom and the block needs tons of work to even get it to clearence
You have always been able to swap heads and get different results on the V-8's Different valve size different valve angle different combistion chamber size and so on
Ask at a swap meet how many people would like an oniginal set of 2.02 Double hump heads. I bet you get a couple takers.
The 2.0 head if I remember corectly is different then the 2.2's and I'm not sure it would fit. I know the 2.4 VVT engine head sould be different too but since I've yet to see one in person I wont speculate. Guess you'll just have to hang in there and wait a littlr while longer.
Yes V8's swap heads, better breathing etc.. That is not how you get a 427, or a 383. It is in the bottem end.
I'm pretty sure the 2.0, and the 2.2 ectoec heads are really close to the same. It is in the borrem end they made the changes. The 2.4ecotec head might not swap, but would not surpise me if it would.
FU Tuning
Uh, John I said it was the crank. Second line of the quote.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I'm also pretty sure that the heads themselves from the 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 ECOTEC motors will all fit on any eco block--as far as having the same water jackets and bolt patterns should all match up...not sure about the manifold bolt patterns (i/e)...the 2.4 timing assembly is prob gonna be tricky to swap over, but the heads should all bolt on though...both the 2.0 and the 2.4 heads are better flowing and stronger than the 2.2 head...especially the 2.0 head, its sand cast not the porous lost foam crap of the 2.2, not too sure of the 2.4 one
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2002 LS Sport coupe
NJHK (Sexual Chocolate) wrote:The only thing I can think of for our car that might work is putting a 2.0 head on a 2.2 head but that's because I believe they are the exact same head, the difference between the 2 is the bottom end.
Not saying it will or won't work, but the LSJ & L61 heads are different.. They are 2 different P/N. Not sure what the difference is.
Also, the cams & valves are different P/N. Looks like the rest of the valve train is the same.
jackalope wrote:Uh, John I said it was the crank. Second line of the quote.
I know. I was not commented on that part.
FU Tuning
Matt K wrote:I'm also pretty sure that the heads themselves from the 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 ECOTEC motors will all fit on any eco block--as far as having the same water jackets and bolt patterns should all match up...not sure about the manifold bolt patterns (i/e)...the 2.4 timing assembly is prob gonna be tricky to swap over, but the heads should all bolt on though...both the 2.0 and the 2.4 heads are better flowing and stronger than the 2.2 head...especially the 2.0 head, its sand cast not the porous lost foam crap of the 2.2, not too sure of the 2.4 one
It's pretty much a toss up if the 2.4 VVT can fit on cause it's never been done but I can imagine it will be difficult.
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My mistake dude wasn't being smart or anything.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
NJHK (Sexual Chocolate) wrote:Matt K wrote:I'm also pretty sure that the heads themselves from the 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 ECOTEC motors will all fit on any eco block--as far as having the same water jackets and bolt patterns should all match up...not sure about the manifold bolt patterns (i/e)...the 2.4 timing assembly is prob gonna be tricky to swap over, but the heads should all bolt on though...both the 2.0 and the 2.4 heads are better flowing and stronger than the 2.2 head...especially the 2.0 head, its sand cast not the porous lost foam crap of the 2.2, not too sure of the 2.4 one
It's pretty much a toss up if the 2.4 VVT can fit on cause it's never been done but I can imagine it will be difficult.
Has anyone tried swaping a 2.0 head on a 2.2? It might work.
I dont think the 2.4 VVT head to a 2.2 would be easy since the VVT is controlled by the ecu which also controls the throttle body (right?) So you would have to swap the ecu and throttle body to get it to work.
Is the actual head better or is it the VVT that would make more power? And wouldnt a p&p 2.2 head with 1mm oversized valves be better than the 2.0 and 2.4? I think you could just swap the head, but get the vvt with it would take a lot more work. Thats just what i think. Someone needs to try the swap or compare the top end to see if it would work.
crackajax wrote:I dont think the 2.4 VVT head to a 2.2 would be easy since the VVT is controlled by the ecu which also controls the throttle body (right?) So you would have to swap the ecu and throttle body to get it to work.
That's the same thing I'm thinking. Being that it's controlled by the computer, you would have to swap that over as well. Not sure about the throttle body but I wouldn't be surprised.
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Is the actual head better or is it the VVT that would make more power?
It's the VVT that makes it so much better. VVT is especially good on 4 cylinder motors...look at the all motor Honda guys running V-tec. They found a way to use their VVT to their advantage by manipulating the computer.
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And wouldnt a p&p 2.2 head with 1mm oversized valves be better than the 2.0 and 2.4?
If the 2.2 head and the 2.0 head aren't the same, I bet their specs are just about the same...so a P & P 2.2 head would be better.
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Someone needs to try the swap or compare the top end to see if it would work.
My friend is actually planning on doing it next year after he has the supercharger on his car. He's going to talk to alot of people about how VVT works on other vehicles and to see if there is any a way to manipulate the computer as well.
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as far as i can figure the only reason you change heads is to change combustion chamber sizes. if you want to go with lower or higher combustion you want either for a reason...so just spend the extra few bucks and get upgraded pistons instead. Also, why change the head over from another stock motor. Send your stock head out to a good machine shop and get your built the way you want it.
On the other hand if there would be a way to get VVT... that would be something worth looking at.
or you could just drop 30g's under your hood and say f#$% 'em all...lol
Cheers
the 2.0L are far too different from all others engine available in any J's but i know you can use a deawoo cilinder head wich is doch on thos sohc engines so it's somehow a frankenstein engine!
the 2.0 head is stronger and better for modifying because the casting is much more dense and its reinforced...the 2.2 lost-foam casting is very porous and you can't get the surfaces entirely smooth, etc...the 2.0 head is also better flowing -- stock-for-stock -- than the 2.2 (so says GM but they provided no specs)...I don't know if the combustion chamber size is any different on any of the heads...I'm also not sure if the 2.4 head is sand-cast or lost-foam but pretty sure it flows better than the 2.2 stock because the 2.4 cams are more performance-oriented...I have a ported head with oversized valves and I would guess it probably flows much better than a stock 2.0 head, but its just a guess, also I'm sure its plenty strong enough for what I have in mind (and most people)...the different part numbers for valve train components is because the valves on the 2.0 are SS and lighter, just overall better parts, but of the same size I believe so they could be put in a 2.2 head
the 2.4 VVT is a cam gear assembly and I'm pretty sure the head itself should bolt on to any block without that assembly on (thought the head may have a widened passage for the extra junk, not sure)...just swap on some 2.2 cam gears...I dunno?...also I think the VVT assembly is run my a piggyback module...could maybe slave it into any PCM....the ETC, dunno who's figured that one out yet...
why swap heads at all?...better flow, different cams...I could see if they were all readily available in junk yards like the honda motors but until then not very feasible unless you're lucky, but I don't see why it wouldn't be worth it if you had the parts and the means...its definitely a logical idea anyway
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2002 LS Sport coupe
The 2.0 sc head does fit the 2.2 block, it's already been done in Europe.
The best swap will be the 2.4 block with the 2.0sc head, as the ecu, inlet and exhausts will still work ok on an ecotec 2.2 car.
Matt K, thanks for the info
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