So after about 5k miles on the built motor, most of them at 13psi I managed to find the weak point of my built 2.2 runing 18psi.
Apparently what happened is the boost was enough, even with 120# intake valve springs (stock is 75# I think), I managed to partially open an intake valve which caused the lifters to float and then slam into the cam causing this:
<img src="http://clubhousecustoms.com/modules/gallery/albums/After-Fire-Pics/damaged_lifters.sized.jpg">
YOu can see that pretty much every intake lifter is damaged. Mainly the one towards the middle there.
Of course all the metal from this got into the bearings and damaged the cam and crank some. They were able to polish out the scars, but any more and the cam would have been junk. Also luckily I had the crank Nitrided or that would have been junk.
It also seems like the pistons werent holding compression super good (there was some carbon past the comprssion ring) so they are most likely gonna gas port the pistons to help the rings seal a bit better.
Also my shop is going to be custom machining some new plungers for the lifters to covert them to solid rollers, instead of hydraulic.
Then another 20 or 30 pounds of intake spring pressure should help as well.
WIth any luck Ill have this sucker back together by the end of next week.
THen the fun can continue.
Dan
YEP, my 60' times suck
247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dhc1902@yahoo.com
That sucks Dan
Sorry it had to happen to you for me to learn from it
Hope the new build goes better
Wow man , im sorry . I hope everything works out for you.
I hate to see my lifters, I have a diesel sound to my engine when I turn on my AC, and I have had this noise ever since the second month of driving the car, I bought the car with 4 miles on it brand new.
But, if GM ever releases that damned SC for the Eco I will be rebuilding the whole motor anyway.
Sux to see this happened to someone else also, after rebuilding a motor you are spozed to drive for a certain milage then recheck the internals, I think most Ecotecs have something that loosens up after a few miles are put on the engine, because I have seen an arse load of cavaliers with upper engine knock/rattle.
Kross wrote:I hate to see my lifters, I have a diesel sound to my engine when I turn on my AC, and I have had this noise ever since the second month of driving the car, I bought the car with 4 miles on it brand new.
But, if GM ever releases that damned SC for the Eco I will be rebuilding the whole motor anyway.
Sux to see this happened to someone else also, after rebuilding a motor you are spozed to drive for a certain milage then recheck the internals, I think most Ecotecs have something that loosens up after a few miles are put on the engine, because I have seen an arse load of cavaliers with upper engine knock/rattle.
Ummmm.... learn to read spanky.... this is a OHV 2.2, not an eco.
Juiced, sorry to hear it, but hey, repairable damage and another chance to upgrade!
Solid lifter conversion huh? Maybe you should have them whip up a couple of sets i'm sure there are some more hardcore OHV guys that would be looking for them.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
sorry to hear that dan, as always -- one of us learns a valuable lesson...
it seems to be me lately a lot though, so, congratulations for stealing my thunder
--Lee
-=[2004 JBody Bash - '82-'94 Street Modified - Third Place]=-
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Does it make you an internet tuff-guy to be rude to people that make a mistake?
sorry to see that. but you are right, it's a lesson learned and more room for growth. course you realize just like everyone else here that no matter what you do, high horsepower motors are going to break. little things happen and things break. it's just part of the package deal. best of luck in your future progress.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
I was thinking of a rev kit, but the problem is getting it to fit in the lifter guides. I'm sure it could be worked out though. Probably just as easy as the Solid roller conversion.
Dan,
What size valves are you running? What's the installed pressure of the springs? It seems like the valves would have to be big for "only" 18 psi to force them open. Not that 18 psi is low for boost, but it's not a huge amount of pressure to place against an intake valve.
Maybe it's an issue with valvetrain geometry and bind? Or some contamination that ended up getting wedged between the roller and the cam? Hard to tell from the pics, is there any chance a lifter got sideways in the plastic guide? Or maybe that you had too much pressure on the roller for the amount of oil that's present?
I dunno, but it just doesn't seem like what you're describing should cause the damage I'm seeing. Just some quick numbers...
With a 1.84" intake valve, area of the valve is about 2.659" squared. 2.659 * 18 psi gives about 47.862 pounds of pressure on the valve. Stock spring pressure closed is 75 lbs (is this what you meant above? I thought you were talking about the spring rate.) so you've probably got room to spare with that pressure.
-->Slow
hey dan, did you check out the valve springs from jbodyperformance or mantapart.... one of the two has the HD springs...
sucks to hear man, but good you caught it sooner than later.
Kross wrote:Does it make you an internet tuff-guy to be rude to people that make a mistake?
nope just makes me smart enough to check a profile before yammering on about the wrong engine
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Who rebuilt you engine? Just for the rest of us to know...
We should have some sort of blacklist for people who do poor work or who have poor quality parts or service.
Dam-it Muffins (Event)]hey dan, did you check out the valve springs from jbodyperformance or mantapart.... one of the two has the HD springs...
I am already using stiffer dual Comp Cams valve springs. Apparently not stiff enough or too stiff that I crushed the lifters.
Richard Who rebuilt you engine? Just for the rest of us to know...
We should have some sort of blacklist for people who do poor work or who have poor quality parts or service.
This is no fault of my shop. Everything they did was top notch. It just turns out I have found the next weakest link and now its time to fix it. Last year when I built the motor I didnt wanna spend any more time or money investing in a solid lifter solution. Looking back on it now I wish I would have. But live and learn as they say.
Joel,
I forget the exact intake valve size or exactly what they said about the spring pressure. Ill get the specifics ( and maybee write them down ) next week when I call out there when Im not super sick. Man being sick in the summer is the worst, especialy when I have a TON of work to do.
Later,
Dan
If I only could have figured out hte quotes BS. .. oh well.
YEP, my 60' times suck
247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dhc1902@yahoo.com
Here is a shot of the lifter "inserts" my shop machined up for me. They are going to replace the hydraulic plunger and spring in the stock lifter bodies. They are not solid so I dont think they will add much, if any, weight over the stockers.
They still need to heat treat them before they are assembled but ... so far so good.
Dan
YEP, my 60' times suck
247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dhc1902@yahoo.com
Wow, think they'd make up a couple more sets of those?
<img src=http://hometown.aol.com/yogiandbooboo7/images/french.jpg>
I am going to discuss that with them when I pick up the motor. Like how much for a complete set. Since they need to be pressed into the lifter bodies, its best that they start with everything new, blah blah blah.
Ill keep everyone informed.
The other issue is you will definitely need an adjustable vavle train to run these.
Dan
YEP, my 60' times suck
247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dhc1902@yahoo.com
Why not just get some sball block solid roller lifters wit the link bar, and dump the plastic retainers amd you will most likely have to get differant length pushrods, but the whole lifter will be stronger than just converting the stockers to a solid roller design??
Thsi is what im planning on doing for my build.
BTW. Sorry to see it broke, nowim thinkingthat my choice of springs with 130 lbs seat pressure at 1.80 installed height.
Mike
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Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????
That is what I originally wanted to do , but it didnt seem that there was enough room for any sort of lifter with a tie bar. There really isnt much "extra" material to remove in that area to make more room either.
This seemed to be the only solution.
Dan
YEP, my 60' times suck
247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dhc1902@yahoo.com
