I have read up on the benifits of Alky injection on forced induction vehicals in the past and I know it can be done with naturally asperated cars as well. What I am looking for is if anybody here on the org has it installed on their n/a car. Eventally I plan on boosting my 2200 but I was thinking about getting a kit for now. And switching out the boost sensor switch to a vac one.
Does anybody have any info for the N/A cars that are equiped with alky? or possibly feed back on their personal experience?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Jeff
I have not yet done this, but am most likely going to on my WS6. It may be a consideration for my Sunfire depaending on how it works. Go to
http://www.snowperformance.net and check out their systems.
I haven't seen it used on N/A cars as frequently as F/I cars... but it seems to work absolutely great on F/I cars...
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
its better used on high compression motors , or trucks hauling heavy loads to prevent detonation
yeah i really dont see why it would work for a NA car. Its used to prevent detonation, cavaliers that are NA and dont have internals done, dont need to worry about detonation. Its also used to cool the intake charger, but when i say cool, i mean cool it down to atmosphere temperature, a NA's car intake temp is already at atmosphere temperature. I dont see how the car would gain from it at all. Maybe it could keep the engine running a little colder, but thats about it. This kinda seems like putting an intercooler on a NA car
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
Just like any car, cooler air makes better power. I think it will be surprising the gain from it on a n/a car. I'm considering it as well.
FU Tuning
ive also heard that alcohol or water injection gives your engine a sort of "steam cleaning", getting rid of carbon deposits, stuff like that. people say that when they open up their motors, everything is very nice after having used alky/water injection.
^ I too have heard people comment on how clean the engine is upon teardown. We'll see how much money i have saved in the next 2-3 months and then i will problaly get a kit. I got other things i need to get done first, like front swaybar and front koni inserts in as well as fix my nos kit.
But does anybody here have a kit on thier own personal car that is na?
i dont see how it would cool the air for a NA car. Lets say its 75F outside, the air going into your engine is 75F, the bottle of alky sits in the car, its 75F. So your trying to cool your 75F air with 75F alkky. I can understand the steam cleaning part though.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
when water evaporates it absorbs the heat in the air and makes it cooler
take a paper towel , get it wet , ring it out some so its not dripping every where , feel it it feels like room temp right , now wave it around now feel it , its alot colder
alcohol does the same thing , but water doesnt burn the alcohol will burn
-JaysonZ24- wrote:i dont see how it would cool the air for a NA car. Lets say its 75F outside, the air going into your engine is 75F, the bottle of alky sits in the car, its 75F. So your trying to cool your 75F air with 75F alkky. I can understand the steam cleaning part though.
I think your skipping a part. Just because it is 75f outside does not make the air goin in the head 75f. Once it gets to the engine bay it is going to warm up some. Maybe only a couple degrees, but everything counts.
I will agree it will not make as big of a difference as it woud on a boosted car. I'm a true believer that every little thing counts and makes everything else better. For people like myself I have every N/A bolt on, beside a aftermarket flywheels, and clutch. I'm looking for ways to squeze more out of my car N/A before I attempt some boost on it. Alky injection and maybe a SAFC, I think some nice gains could be gotten.
FU Tuning
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]when water evaporates it absorbs the heat in the air and makes it cooler
take a paper towel , get it wet , ring it out some so its not dripping every where , feel it it feels like room temp right , now wave it around now feel it , its alot colder
alcohol does the same thing , but water doesnt burn the alcohol will burn
ok i forgot that the alcohol will burn, thats true. But if you already have a cold air intake, thats as cold as the air is ever going to be. Adding water of the same temperature wont cool it down. Maybe 5F at most, and that would only be because of heatsoak from the engine that rises the intake temp. And as a general rule of thumb, i thought it was for ever 10F drop in intake temp, expect a 1HP gain. On top of that i dount the alcohol adds much if any HP to the car. It just doesnt seem like a worth while investment for a NA car. But if someone does get it and it works really well, good.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
it also increases octane and increases gas mileage.
see
here for a description of what it does...
-JaysonZ24- wrote:[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]when water evaporates it absorbs the heat in the air and makes it cooler
take a paper towel , get it wet , ring it out some so its not dripping every where , feel it it feels like room temp right , now wave it around now feel it , its alot colder
alcohol does the same thing , but water doesnt burn the alcohol will burn
ok i forgot that the alcohol will burn, thats true. But if you already have a cold air intake, thats as cold as the air is ever going to be. Adding water of the same temperature wont cool it down. Maybe 5F at most, and that would only be because of heatsoak from the engine that rises the intake temp. And as a general rule of thumb, i thought it was for ever 10F drop in intake temp, expect a 1HP gain. On top of that i dount the alcohol adds much if any HP to the car. It just doesnt seem like a worth while investment for a NA car. But if someone does get it and it works really well, good.
ill kinda make it as simple as i can , try the water and towel thing i suggested , and you will see what im talking about
the closest thing i can compair it to is a swap cooler , and similar to your a/c in your car
-JaysonZ24- wrote:ok i forgot that the alcohol will burn, thats true. But if you already have a cold air intake, thats as cold as the air is ever going to be. Adding water of the same temperature wont cool it down. Maybe 5F at most, and that would only be because of heatsoak from the engine that rises the intake temp. And as a general rule of thumb, i thought it was for ever 10F drop in intake temp, expect a 1HP gain. On top of that i dount the alcohol adds much if any HP to the car. It just doesnt seem like a worth while investment for a NA car. But if someone does get it and it works really well, good.
Not true. Just like Eric said, evaporating water (and alcohol) will cool the intake temperature. take a towel or wash cloth, and soak it in some room temp water or alcohol, wring it out, and then shake it around in the air a little, it'll get colder (especially with the alcohol which will evaporate more quickly).
Yes they will also leave your engine pretty and clean through to the cylinder.
the towel analgy i dont think is correct. See theres a big difference in a tower and your intake/engine. For one the towel is being dried in an eviroment that has a much less amount of water in the air than the towel has. So there is pleanty of room in the atmosphere around the towel for the water to exavporate. When the water is inside the engine, it is surrounded by the exact same water. It cant float away into the atmosphere, it just stays there with the other water molecules. So that towel analgy just really cant be applied here because the towel is in an epen enviroment where as the intake isnt.
I just get this feeling that allky injection kits for NA cars are more so for cars that run a higher compression. To reduce detonation. Not for a car that runs 87 octane.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
its the same principal effect , the evaporating water absorbs the heat , and leaves the surrounding air cool
only other way i can out is the way you get cold getting out of the pool or shower , you feel the temp drop rather quickly
and like i said previously , its best suited for high compression motors , and tow vehicles , and vehicles with detonation problems
-JaysonZ24- wrote:the towel analgy i dont think is correct. See theres a big difference in a tower and your intake/engine. For one the towel is being dried in an eviroment that has a much less amount of water in the air than the towel has. So there is pleanty of room in the atmosphere around the towel for the water to exavporate. When the water is inside the engine, it is surrounded by the exact same water. It cant float away into the atmosphere, it just stays there with the other water molecules. So that towel analgy just really cant be applied here because the towel is in an epen enviroment where as the intake isnt.
I just get this feeling that allky injection kits for NA cars are more so for cars that run a higher compression. To reduce detonation. Not for a car that runs 87 octane.
I think you r eally are missing the point. Of course a car with a fully built motor is going to gain more from it. So can a stock motor as well. Simple fact that the air getting in your motor is warmer than the outside air (by the time it gets to the inside of your motor). You might only gain 5 degrees, but that is a gain, and I bet on a dyno you will see that difference, or even a track.
FU Tuning
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]its the same principal effect , the evaporating water absorbs the heat , and leaves the surrounding air cool
only other way i can out is the way you get cold getting out of the pool or shower , you feel the temp drop rather quickly
and like i said previously , its best suited for high compression motors , and tow vehicles , and vehicles with detonation problems
i agree with you 100% that its best suited for high compression motors and vehicles with detonation problems. I dont think this will do anymore than 5HP for a car that doesnt have either of those. Seems like it would be a big waste of money on a stock engine running 87 octane.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
I just thought abouit this but how would this work in conjunction with a wet nitrous kit since i have one on my car? Would you have to turn off the alky kit? or I think it would actually help since the engine temp goes up when on the jucie and the alky kit would help cool it off right ...plus since the alky kit boosts octane ratting you could by therory spray more due to the higher octane ratine with less chance of detination.........lmfao this should get an interesting response. oh and just think of all the liquids that are now in the cylinders..granted it wont be enough to hydro lock a basicly stock compression motor.
actually the nitrous actualy cools the intake tell it burns in the combustion chamber
i wouldnt use both at the same time , because of the chance to flood the spark
use the nitrous for racing , and the alky for the street
I know nitrous cools the intake temp. but when i use it in my car or in my buddies stang the temp gauge goes up at the end of a run and why I thought the evap of the water helped lowwer combustion chamber temps.
good info.
i might sell the gm s/c set up on my car. i have the coolingmist set up currently also.
i think i would still run the water/meth injection n/a. just not as big as a injector(go back to m2). I like what it did with the s/c.
so i will keep updated.
Team GREEN
i posted about the nitrous and alky in the nitrous forum and nobody felt like discussing it. now that we have the ball rolling, why would both together flood the spark?
