hiya folks,
just bought a 1996 sunfire used, and i know nothing about this car and parts for it etc. Just ordered a shop manual to help get up to speed, but I have a few questions.
Firstly, its an automatic, i want to turn it into a standard, but i heard the stock 5 speeds can be rather flimsy when put large amounts of horsepower are applied, im shooting for a target of about 320 to 375 horsepower out of the little 2.2 I got, is there a performance 5 speed out there? what should i do? what would i need, anyone here ever done this?
second, i read the faq here about how the pontiac motors dont handle turbos well. Is there a way to strengthen all the items that may fail, i dont know much about where to find performance parts for a 4 cylinder, its not like with an 8 i can pick up any summit catalog and get everything needed to build a race engine. So i guess that goes out to any of you who have turbo'd one of these, or have a engines putting out large amounts of horsepower.
lastly, whats some good online stores to look in for parts, searching google proved to be totally worthless.
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=215434&t=215434
that should get you started....
the 2.2ohv isnt really a pontiac motor.... more or less a gm motor as its also in the cavalier and also a few other cars.....
cavalier and sunfire....same exact car, chassis, motor, different interior and body panels....
anything made for a cavalier performance and suspension will fit a sunfire....
plenty have made power.....
check the boost forum for more info on boosted stuff.
also few goals or things to note as far as power...
-karo in his 2.4 sunfire made something like 354 or 357 on the bottle. ran low 12;s
-mike karas made 410 wheel hp out of a 2.4
- plenty of 2.2 guys are easily in the mid 200hp range boosted... can go more but money is a factor...
also another 2.2 ohv sunfire to note
http://members.aol.com/KWZ26/byronC.html
ran 13.6 last i checked.
def take time to read up around here and search for things theres alot of hidden info
if you're going with a turbo charger, a lot of people have had success with automatics+boost.
I believe you can get a B&M shiftplus for your auto which makes it shift a lot higher in the rpm range and shifts faster. (Im not sure if theres a shiftplus for your transmission tho, so dont quote me on that one)
in terms of where to buy parts?
carcustoms.net
gravanatuning.com
jtuners.com
jbodyperformance.com
they're all 'pretty good' in carrying 96 parts.
If you want to make 375hp with your little 2.2 it will require a LOT of money. I would personally aim for a smaller goal and go up from there.
aftermarket internals would be a great idea, as the cast crap inside our engines are NFG for anything. Eagle H-Beam Rods, Forged Aluminum Pistons (JE, WiseCo, etc)
Headwork is very important when wanting to make heaps of power. Port and Polish, Stainless Valves, Hi perf. valve springs maybe, 3 angle valve grind, etc.
Also a turbo camshaft is a good idea (or regrind, whatever)
You also have to overcome the injector problem with 96 2.2's. (you should research further into your options, because there are too many details to list)
even with all of this I dont know if 375 is attainable, but good luck dude
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stevefire wrote:if you're going with a turbo charger, a lot of people have had success with automatics+boost.
I believe you can get a B&M shiftplus for your auto which makes it shift a lot higher in the rpm range and shifts faster. (Im not sure if theres a shiftplus for your transmission tho, so dont quote me on that one)
in terms of where to buy parts?
carcustoms.net
gravanatuning.com
jtuners.com
jbodyperformance.com
they're all 'pretty good' in carrying 96 parts.
If you want to make 375hp with your little 2.2 it will require a LOT of money. I would personally aim for a smaller goal and go up from there.
aftermarket internals would be a great idea, as the cast crap inside our engines are NFG for anything. Eagle H-Beam Rods, Forged Aluminum Pistons (JE, WiseCo, etc)
Headwork is very important when wanting to make heaps of power. Port and Polish, Stainless Valves, Hi perf. valve springs maybe, 3 angle valve grind, etc.
Also a turbo camshaft is a good idea (or regrind, whatever)
You also have to overcome the injector problem with 96 2.2's. (you should research further into your options, because there are too many details to list)
even with all of this I dont know if 375 is attainable, but good luck dude
will require a decent amount, but maybe not as much as most think....
as of yet it hasnt been done i dont believe..... maybe.... but if hes crafty enough with some things such as fabrication and shopping around... he can def amaze many.
also 3 angle valve grind is stock.
Dave Eichorn, it's your lucky night cause I'm here to help you out
Aiming for 300+ Horsepower is a high goal, a good goal, but very high, especially out of your 2.2 OHV motor. You would DEFENITLEY have to rebuild your motor from top to bottom (rods, pistons, head, cams etc.), Get a good turbo setup and build your tranny up. There is alot that goes into building a high performance car, you have to do tons of research, ask lots of questions and do one thing at a time. If you know what your doing ahead of time there is no guessing along the way but your doing good now for asking now what to do.
To answer your transmission questions, a 5-speed can handle a decent amount of power but for the amount that your working for you would need to upgrade your clutch, shifter & flywheel. As far as doing a transmission swap from Auto to Manual, it's alot of work and if your not doing it yourself, it's alot of $$$. You also need a donor car that has the same motor as yours (example: you can't swap a tranny from a 2.4 and put it on a 2.2 OHV). If your really interested in what parts you need go to this thread (don't mind the topic name being for an ECOTEC but you would need the same parts):
Tranny Swap Parts List
In my honest opinion, it's not worth doing. I have an auto as well and I've contemplated doing a transmission swap. For the amount of money your spending to do the swap, you could have a built auto tranny that could be faster than a manual but I understand why you want to do a swap like that...5 speeds are fun
About the "Pontiac motors can't handle turbos", that's not true. J-body cars share the same motors, which means that a Chevy has your motor. Also, if you build a motor correctly, any motor can handle a turbo.
Here are some places to find aftermarket parts:
Jbody Performance
RK Sport
Cavalier Connections
RSM Racing
Defined Parts
Modified Motorsports
Car Customs
Those are just some companies that I can think of off the top of my head.
Good luck, if you have any questions just ask me or just post on the org.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:also 3 angle valve grind is stock.
naw theres 2 angles there, and the valves are already back cut a bit, but as far as 3 sealing angles I dont recall so.
45 valve angle and 46 seat angle, doesn't say anything about the other 2 angles.
if I had a valve in my hand I'd know forsure
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I've been wrong in the past, and this certainly wouldn't be any acception.
I can't really find any info on them being 3 angle, but I believe you!
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i had the machine shop do my head, they showed me there were 3 angles already on mine....
i dunno...
you have the older 2.2 vs the difference in the 2200... could be maybe?
Thanks guys! You got me pointed in the right direction. THe piece about the auto trans holding up better under the stress took me by suprise. Which auto is better, the three speed or the four speed? or does it not make a difference?
Dave Eichorn wrote:Thanks guys! You got me pointed in the right direction. THe piece about the auto trans holding up better under the stress took me by suprise. Which auto is better, the three speed or the four speed? or does it not make a difference?
Your welcome.
4-speed, better gearing. Yes, it makes a huge difference.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Quote:
You also need a donor car that has the same motor as yours
Ummm...
But.....
He'll only ever find an Isuzu manual tranny that way.
The poor guy will never know to look at the 2nd gen V6 for a stronger transmission.
Oh, well. More for me.
-->Slow
NJs Honda Killa wrote:Dave Eichorn wrote:Thanks guys! You got me pointed in the right direction. THe piece about the auto trans holding up better under the stress took me by suprise. Which auto is better, the three speed or the four speed? or does it not make a difference?
Your welcome.
4-speed, better gearing. Yes, it makes a huge difference.
3 speed, stronger... able to hold more power...
less gears, the larger they can be, larger the gear the stronger
decent tradeoff.
but will the 2nd gen v6 manual tranny mate to the 2.2 OHV? whats the model number of the 4speed auto?
Also, how do i convert the Fuel rail to top feed?
and just to keep you guys's brains busy, where can i find a beefed up head gasket, and the other internals, lifters, and pistons, the hard to find stuff.
oo and one more minor question, is a 1998 2.2 interchangeable with my 1996?
Dave Eichorn wrote:oo and one more minor question, is a 1998 2.2 interchangeable with my 1996?
parts, no. however, you can swap motors as long as you swap the PCM. But when doing the swap, make sure and swap all the accessories and electronics too. The major advantage to the 2200 over the 95-97 2.2 is first and foremost, the fuel system. Hooray for topfeed injectors. And secondly, they come with factory roller rockers, which run smoother. Of course, the Crane 1.6 roller rocker kit is still an improvement on stock, but roller valvetrain is shibby.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
so if i was to swap in the 2200 besides the PCM, what else would need to be changed?
Dave Eichorn wrote:so if i was to swap in the 2200 besides the PCM, what else would need to be changed?
motor / transmission / PCM. wiring harness... i don't think there are differences. Shifted and Event know all the tricky stuff like that.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
thanks for giving it a try man, if anyone else knows please feel free to tell me, i think the transmissions are the same, pretty sure i read that somewhere.
why doesnt anyone make injectors for the ln2?
Spotabee Racing wrote:Dave Eichorn wrote:oo and one more minor question, is a 1998 2.2 interchangeable with my 1996?
parts, no. however, you can swap motors as long as you swap the PCM. But when doing the swap, make sure and swap all the accessories and electronics too. The major advantage to the 2200 over the 95-97 2.2 is first and foremost, the fuel system. Hooray for topfeed injectors. And secondly, they come with factory roller rockers, which run smoother. Of course, the Crane 1.6 roller rocker kit is still an improvement on stock, but roller valvetrain is shibby.
a few parts are....
waterpump, the block, pulleys, etc...
i found a company that makes injectors for the engine i have, 350 for whichever flow rate you need.
www.fuelparts.com
