Can anyone give me an idea of what the stock static ignition timing of the ecotec is, and how far the ignition timing advances at what rpm, as the rpm's go up? Any info at all would be helpfull..
i now from watching mine it sits around 10* at idle and goes up to almost 40* at WOT. general cruising it seems to sit between 20-34
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
This is with the stock ecu? At WOT, what rpm does the timing get to maximum advance(about 40 degrees)? That 40 degrees is total advance including the static(10 deg) advance, correct? I'm attempting to get an idea of the stock ignition advance map to give specs to JBP for the reflash.
your best bet is to go out and by some monitoring software like i did. theres a bunch of good ones. ask shifted for some advice or IM me sometime.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
I'm working on getting something to monitor the timing advance, I was just hoping that someone had already mapped the stock Eco ignition advance at WOT, it may take a month or so before I will have the equipment to do this myself. I need info like this(numbers guessed based on what you posted):
Timing advance at WOT:
Static(@ idle): 10* base advance?
2000rpm: 20* total advance?
3000rpm: 26* total advance?
4000rpm: 34* total advance?
5000rpm-redline: 40* total advance?
Maybe you can help with these numbers, or anyone else who can verify/modify these numbers?
Older GM 4 cyl engines using similar DIS triggers had 60 degrees "reference angle." But, when running, the ignition system provided 0 degrees base advance.
04firetec wrote:I'm working on getting something to monitor the timing advance, I was just hoping that someone had already mapped the stock Eco ignition advance at WOT, it may take a month or so before I will have the equipment to do this myself. I need info like this(numbers guessed based on what you posted):
Timing advance at WOT:
Static(@ idle): 10* base advance?
2000rpm: 20* total advance?
3000rpm: 26* total advance?
4000rpm: 34* total advance?
5000rpm-redline: 40* total advance?
Maybe you can help with these numbers, or anyone else who can verify/modify these numbers?
firetec, email me privately, I will go out and take a datalog of the car from idle to redline and email the numbers for you, do you have an auto or manual?
Pete ***RIP John Lingenfelter***
2002 Flame Yellow Sunfire GT B+M shifted 5 Spd
Just looking for mods and prey
^^^
why cant you post on the site?
SorryI didn't get to finish my post above.
The "reference angle" is critical to correct timing. The pcm will look up spark values for various conditions to determine a desired ignition timing. Then it will subtract the "reference angle" from the desired timing to figure out how much advance to provide. For example, if the reference angle is 6 deg, and the pcm wants 10 deg, it will deliver 10-6 = 4 additional degrees timing. With GM distributor systems, this reference angle is the same as the static timing. With DIS, the reference angle is not the same. The DIS module delivers spark at 0 deg BTDC until the ecm/ pcm applies 5V to the bypass line, at which time timing is under computer control. But with the Ecotec engine, there is no bypass mode, no bypass line, and the timing is never controlled by the ignition module, only the pcm. So there's no static timing value.
When watching timing on a scantool or monitor, remember to note the MAP and RPM readings as well as the timing. The ecm will advance timing as manifold vacuum increases and as rpm increases. 5000 rpm and wide open throttle may be as little as 20 deg advance, while 5000 rpm just after letting off the throttle may be something in the neighborhood of 40 deg advance.
Why doesn't JBP have access to a stock eco calibration?
-->Slow
slowolej wrote:
Why doesn't JBP have access to a stock eco calibration?
-->Slow
That's what I'd like to know! Unfortunately, there are no other options at the moment, so I will have to try and provide them with the best information I can, seeing as how they don't really seem to know what they are doing, judging from their email responses. Then again, the person emailing me could be not the same person as whoever is doing the reflash.
as i emailed you there is no way for us to give you an answer. there are just too many other variables to account for. IAT, ECT, MAP, KS readings just for starters. if you need the actually code your gonna have to wait for someone to pull it out of the ECU.
if JBP cant pull anything out i dont thing id want them to try putting something in IMHO.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
If you have software that will log data, you could warm the car up then drive around town for a while. Many data points could be pulled from the data log by watching the recording. Temperature compensations would likely be gone by the time the engine's fully warmed up. Corrections for EGR on could probably be worked out, ks activity typically also comes with knock retard or spark retard values displayed on the scantool. I'm sure a reasonable guess could be made with a large enough datalog. Anything's got to be better than a completely blind guess.
-->Slow
Yeah, that's what I figured.. I really wish JBP sounded more confident and knowledgable about what they are doing, but they don't, and there aren't any other options at the moment..
Anyone know where I can get an OBD II port data logger that would be able to tell me what I want to know(advance curve at WOT)? Either that, or just give me some numbers, so I can at least be in the ballpark..
WOT Timing for my Ion at full operating temp with no knock:
830 rpm = 6.5 degrees building to 18.5 degrees by about 3000rpm and then some small amount of retard above 6000rpm i.e. 16 degrees at 6230rpm
sig not found
Well just by chance, I hooked up a gm tech II to the fire today.
I say the info you have up is somewhat accurate.
Timing advance at WOT:
Static(@ idle): 10* base advance?
2000rpm: 20* total advance?
3000rpm: 26* total advance?
4000rpm: 34* total advance?
5000rpm-redline: 40* total advance?
My Car
04firetec wrote:slowolej wrote:
Why doesn't JBP have access to a stock eco calibration?
-->Slow
That's what I'd like to know! Unfortunately, there are no other options at the moment, so I will have to try and provide them with the best information I can, seeing as how they don't really seem to know what they are doing, judging from their email responses. Then again, the person emailing me could be not the same person as whoever is doing the reflash.
I don't know why they don't have one, but I do.
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Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!
Ahhh, but can you read it yet?
-->Slow
Sunfires rule! (Tom) wrote:Well just by chance, I hooked up a gm tech II to the fire today.
I say the info you have up is somewhat accurate.
Timing advance at WOT:
Static(@ idle): 10* base advance?
2000rpm: 20* total advance?
3000rpm: 26* total advance?
4000rpm: 34* total advance?
5000rpm-redline: 40* total advance?
There is no way any 4valve engine would need that much advance.
The Definition of WOT = Wide open throttle, engine fully loaded.
Revving the engine in neutral, even if you floor it, is not the same as WOT.
sig not found
Oh yea there is Todd.
I have seen 40's on a logger before. lol
I think it is stupid personally, if they kept it conservative around 25, it would be easiers tunning for US !!!
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13's
----12's
----11's
----10's
to make this more clear for the clueless.
every post seems TO KEEP SAYING W_O_T!
under light load. i.e. part throttle cruise, decelleration. Any time there is less than atmospheric pressure in the intake. The timing can and will be advanced beyond its base timing curve. #s even in the 40s are very common. The less load... the less air enters the chamber, the more the timing can be advanced to maximize cylinder pressure and hence efficiency.
BUT NONE OF THIS IS CONSIDERED W O T!
WOT is only fully loaded and throttle at max. During WOT operation the engines base timing curve can be seen. And the base timing curve is the starting point that anyone who truly knows how to tune a car wants to know.
sig not found
I drove the car with the tech II hooked up and watched the timing change. I gave it very close to WOT and it was at 36 degrees advance.
My Car
