I did a bit of searching before deciding to buy but the price was good enough that if it turns out to be a bust, I won't be too bothered by it.
I bought this.
<img src="http://www.precizion.org/forums/download.php?id=1518">
Is there anything I need to know before I go and get it installed? It doesn't seem to have a flex pipe attached but the two parts look like they join together in a movable ball-joint sort of way. Does anyone have any experience with this thing? Is it worth installing? Are there any known issues? Does it have the proper fittings for the O2 sensor or anything else that needs to go there?
i think the ball end and those spring bolts act as the flexpipe, not sure thou.
-Borsty
Borsty wrote:i think the ball end and those spring bolts act as the flexpipe, not sure thou.
That's what I figured so I was wondering if that might cause some noise or anything.
The newer RK header looks much nicer, but some people have said that this one is less restrictive due to the smoother pipes. It's obviously not a tuned equal-length header, but it's gotta be better than stock, right?
And aren't a lot of people running boost looking for 4-1 headers instead of the 4-2-1 ones?
It should just bolt right up. I have the pacesetter. The only thing about the old Rk header is the o2 senor was in the number one flange where as teh collector is a better location to give more accurate readings.
If you have both mounts you should not have a problem. One thing after you install it you will need to check the bolts ont he header every 3-4 days for about two weak because the heat may cause it so loosen a little due to expansion after a couple tightening up you should be fine. I reused my stock gasket on my car. It is going to be better than stock. Are you doing to redo you catback as well, if you don't want a alot of noise then Dynomax Superturbo and resonator if you want it to almost sound like stock.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
What would be involved in relocating the O2 sensor to the collector? Is it just a hole that needs to be drilled (and the old one covered) or is there more to it than that?
What if I don't have both mounts? I've got Mark Pain's softer bushings in my lower mount so there's not as much movement as there is with a stock mount but it's got a bit more than the hard urethane ones have. Can an exhaust shop weld on a flex pipe rather than using that piece that comes with it? Would there be any value to this or would it be more trouble than it's worth?
I'll probably do the rest of the exhaust at the same time I install this thing. I just have to decide whether to stick with the dual setup or just get a single one. That's a topic for a different thread though.
With that in mind, it's likely going to sit in my basement for this coming season as I try to get my hands on a blower kit. In the end, I definitely want to keep things somewhat quiet though as it's still a daily driver and I'd like to be able to maintain a conversation with my wife while driving around in it.
Should I get a new gasket for it, just to be safe or does it really not matter?
I feel like such a noob here but I've never really looked into this stuff before.
Kevin, you gotta take out the "bung" for the sensor an put another one where the collector is... meanin its gotta be welded an stuff...shouldnt be complicated though
id plug the o2 hole in the #4 pipe , and put a o2 bung in the collector so the o2 reads all 4 cylinders not just 1
yes the ball and the socket are the flex area , if you have the motor mounts there is less need for a different style flex joint
also its hard to tell from the pic , but it looks like it has the egr channel for the 96-98 2.4's , so make sure you use your stock gasket so the egr port in the head is blocked
the rest should be ok
I have both mount and it is the one with the softer bushing but i have no problems with my pacesetter header and the same joint.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]id plug the o2 hole in the #4 pipe , and put a o2 bung in the collector so the o2 reads all 4 cylinders not just 1
An exhaust shop shouldn't have any issues doing this, right?
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]also its hard to tell from the pic , but it looks like it has the egr channel for the 96-98 2.4's , so make sure you use your stock gasket so the egr port in the head is blocked
What's the stock gasket made of? Is it copper and does it cover over that port or might I need some custom work done to cover that up or something?
I used the stock gasket it convers the port. I belive the stock gasget was metal
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
Just slap a stock gasket on and call it a day, no worries about the EGR.
Any good exahust shop should be able to relocate the 02 sensor bung for you.
As for the rest of the exhaust - I will warn you that we BARELY squeezed my hemi mufflers in on the pass side... there is way less room there than on the driver's side of the car.
Good luck!
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
I have the same header, have had in on the car for 4 years now, not major issues, but then again I fixed them all before ever installing it. Here's what I would suggest you do, as some may have already said.
First- plug the exisiting O2 bung and weld up a new one down in the collector, now in order for this to work properly your also going to have to switch to a 3 or 4 wire heated O2 sensor, because it will take much longer to heat by itself sitting further away from the engine.
Second- cut that ball flange off, get a 3 bolt triangular flange welded on and a new downpipe made, it will say you alot of headaches with leaks and that @!#$ty small ass downpipe that came with it.
<IMG SRC="http://www.j-body.org/registry/kernol/sig.jpg">
I also have this header...well a knock off, the Pro-1 stainless, but it sure did give me a nice gain. With both mounts I have not had any problems with that joint. Get the O2 sensor hole plugged and move it down to the collector though.
Oh and how would you go about converting from a 1-wire sensor to a 3 or 4 wire heated sensor? where to you attach the other 2 or 3 wires?
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
Ok, where do you get the heated O2 sensor and how do you install it?
Do you need to lengthen any wires or use a certain type that's resistant to heat? What's involved with that?
This whole thread is gonna be a gold mine to anyone looking to install one of these.
or for those of us that already have one and dont understand the heated O2 thing.
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
You can use any universal 3 or 4 wire heated O2 sensor. I would advise using a 4 wire, just because it gives you TWO isolated lines (+) (-) for the heating element rather than sharing the ground used by the ECU for the signal. The easiest way to do this which works good is to get the replacement sensor for our cars after the cat, it will give you plenty of wire to splice into the original connector. Basically your two white wires in the sensor will be used for the positive and negative for the heating element. Make sure you hook those to an ign. on only source, that way its not burning itself up when the cars not running. The reason I say to use this sensor is because if you go about getting a universal 4 wire sensor and try to extend the wires, as they only come about a 1' long you might run into issues. The ECU is very picky about the wiring used to the O2 sensor, basically because of the resistance value in the wire, if its too high it throws off your readings and you'll have another headache or your ECU wont even notice the O2 sensor is there.
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so basically get the expensive after the cat sensor with the 5 foot of lead wires on them? Or is there a universal replacement that has like 6 inches or so...enough to solder?
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
You can use a universal one with the short wires, BUT depending on the wire you use, quality, brand, whatever if the resistance is different your not getting a proper reading. O2 sensors are calibrated based on the wire used to wire them, because we are talking such a low voltage that can be affected by resistance. I highly suggest bitting the bullet and getting the post cat O2 sensor so you dont have to do any splicing but right at the connector, but if you want to save some $ you can use a short wire universal BUT go to the junk yard and snag some wire off another O2 sensor, it will save you alot of headaches and keep the resistance in the wire constant.
<IMG SRC="http://www.j-body.org/registry/kernol/sig.jpg">
True. I was not complaining, I was just having it clarified. So the extra wire is then bunched up and zip tied out of the way. I mean can you cut it? I guess right at the connector and then have it terminated by the connector...
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
'Newer' styled header?
Not the 4-2-1?
I've always like this style header, but all the extra work really detering me.
Good luck with it.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Just out of curiosity...I have known people who have just relocated the O2 sensor...the one wire type...with no problems. In fact just about all of the people using the pacesetter design have done this with no problems. What are the possible side effects of just using the non-heated O2 sensor downstream?
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
Also... what's the downside of just leaving it where it is and only getting the reading from the one cylinder?
I had mine in the single cylinder for 2 years and never had a problem. I was not running any more lean or rich.
One downside is if the cylinder you are monitoring is a little lean and the others are fine, your computer will adjust the fuel mixture based on the lean one and make the other 3 rich...bad gas mileage, bad performance, etc. This also works vice versa, etc.
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
Wild Weasel wrote:[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]id plug the o2 hole in the #4 pipe , and put a o2 bung in the collector so the o2 reads all 4 cylinders not just 1
An exhaust shop shouldn't have any issues doing this, right?
[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]also its hard to tell from the pic , but it looks like it has the egr channel for the 96-98 2.4's , so make sure you use your stock gasket so the egr port in the head is blocked
What's the stock gasket made of? Is it copper and does it cover over that port or might I need some custom work done to cover that up or something?
they should not have any problems with it , just have them make sure the o2 clears everything before the drill and weld the bung in
and the stock o2 should be fine , only do the heated o2 if you have any problems
and the stock exhaust gasket is made from stainless steel
I installed my pacesetter header and didn't have to do anything just reinstalled the O2 sensor with no problem or having to do anything. I replaced both senors while doing the whole Cat back..
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
