well, after abuot a month or two of having these things lying around, i finally found time (and $$$) to get them put in. I got them installed by a gm mechanic and when i first took it for a ride, there didn't seem to be much difference at all...not slower, not faster and the car didn't really lope that much. I left the car for awhile then took it out for another spin. The car SEEMED to pull harder and i can still chirp third. I drove the car again after that and everytime i drive it, it seems like it pulls better. Also, after driving around for awhile if i let the car just sit and idle for about a minute, it does eventually start to lope and the whole car shakes. I haven't had a CEL yet and the car SEEMS to be running fine. I'm going to try to get a dyno done this week to see what's really going on...i'm hoping to get a set of cam gears soon and hopefully tune it a little better. I don't know how long it took for people to start getting their problems but i might not be getting a CEL b/c i'm not as heavily modded (yet) as some of the other cars. So far i have no complaints about them, the car runs a bit smoother (except at idle) but i guess the dyno will tell the real story...
never heard of LZM? where did you get them
wikkymaster <<-
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give it time..you may fall in that 40% range with no problems or u might fall into the 60% range with problems with these cam you will never know till something happens. i mean when i first got my car back it would like to stall but the stalling chilled out and then i threw a CEL. i'm clearing them daily at this point in time. but the only real way to tell is to get it dyno'd and find out. i really doubt the 15whp was ever correct. JBP told us that with those specs your only prolly looking at 5-6 hp gain not 15. i tihnk that dyno was really off that day they dyno'd the test car (they said they had to run it a few times b/c they we having sensor problems) so that leads me to think they were getting wrong readings but i dont knwo i wasnt there so i can speak on the dynos behalf. but good luck with ur car hope u actually get gains and not losses like most of of us.
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
wikkymaster wrote:never heard of LZM? where did you get them
Level Zero Motorsports, I think that's what you were looking for.
Glad to hear you are having no problems, I'm glad my hybrid cams worked flawlessly, sounds like an aweful headache to have to deal with.
15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
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for everyone running these cams and getting cells, advance the cam timing 4* and give it a try, you'll also gain back any low end and move the powerband down back to within reasonable levels.
I've already had my big fight with Level Zero about they're cams even offered to help but no one has givin two @!#$s about it thus far. If i knew the full specs on the cam i could without doubt see why this is happening.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
have someone measure them. You can measure lift and degree them to see the duration.
As far as advancing the timing 4 degrees...is that the intake or the exhaust you increase 4 degrees, or do you mean exhaust -2 and intake +2 for a total of 4 degrees extra separation? Also in order to do this, one would have to have adjustable cam gears.
hmm..
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
are you 100% sure b/c i will be willing to try it if your 100% sure and nothing less
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
I'm 100% sure but its going to take some playing around and you have to be willing to do it... start with advancing the cams 2* or so and work your way from their, dont go more than 4* unless it likes it (generally by the time you dyno with the cams installed "straight up" to the time you dyno 4* advanced you'll know what it likes) do both cams at the same time to start with then start playing around after that (have a notepad/pen with you and WRITE THE RESULTS DOWN! so you know what it liked best). did you shave the head/put high compresson pistons in? do you know how much valve clearance you have?
like i say anything can be solved but it would be nice if it was done properly the first time. mainly need to know how much lobe serperation is in the cams and what they are installed @ for a centerline. If i could find someone local with the cams that would be willing to play around abit we could head down to my buds place in Minisota one weekend and play around on the dyno free of charge. Lots of work, but after its all said and done more people will be better off.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Dont really know anyone local that has the cams installed otherwise i'd be down for a weekend of dyno testing
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
they are trying to fix the problems right now. They will not post anything untill they are 100% sure the can say something. ( neg or pos)
oh level zero, yea i heard of em just didnt put the pieces together lol
wikkymaster <<-
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Well, in effect if your trying to run some high(er) duration cams and want it to not be "loapy" and cause "phantom" knock they really should be running more overlap on the cam, it makes things really settle down.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
well i dont have there cams but i do have a stage 2 grind and am getting the CEL when i let it idle for to long.
i live in Minnesota and would be willing to do some playing around one day. dont know what, if any, similarities between my cams and theres would be, but im willing to help if i can. but i dont have adjustable gears so i wouldnt be able to go to the specific degree.
Ohh3SunFire wrote:give it time..you may fall in that 40% range with no problems or u might fall into the 60% range with problems with these cam you will never know till something happens. i mean when i first got my car back it would like to stall but the stalling chilled out and then i threw a CEL. i'm clearing them daily at this point in time. but the only real way to tell is to get it dyno'd and find out. i really doubt the 15whp was ever correct. JBP told us that with those specs your only prolly looking at 5-6 hp gain not 15. i tihnk that dyno was really off that day they dyno'd the test car (they said they had to run it a few times b/c they we having sensor problems) so that leads me to think they were getting wrong readings but i dont knwo i wasnt there so i can speak on the dynos behalf. but good luck with ur car hope u actually get gains and not losses like most of of us.
Actually, my car was the test car. They were having problems with the temperature sensor readings that day(a broken wire to the sensor, sometimes lost contact inside the insulation), but checking the temperature readings later on the dyno computer verified that for my runs, we were getting the correct readings. It was a few of the other cars that day that were getting incorrect readings in the intake temp sensor, throwing things way out of whack. As for the CEL's, I only have an AEM CAI at the moment(lots more coming very soon), besides the cams, and I drive about 80 miles every day. I occasionally get a cel about once every 3-4 weeks, that's it. Once it's cleared, it's gone. Not sure what it is, but the car seems to drive the same with the engine light on.. Overall, I'd say there's definitely a noticeable power difference over stock. My wife has an 03 Sunfire 4 door 5 speed, and mine's noticeably got a lot more power, all over the powerband. I stick by the dyno results. Any less power is probable that the cams were installed one tooth off one way or the other, we'll see if I get CEL's more often with my full 2.5" exhaust, wrapped 4-2-1 headers, ported TB, and full p&p head with 1mm o/s ss valves... I'll worry about that if it happens. My thinking is, if you are getting CEL's more frequently than I am, and have minimal mods, that your cams are installed off a tooth or so..
So you're saying my cams are timed wrong? I had pulled the entire side of the engine off to properly time these things. If anything, I'd say your cams are not timed with the marks which would explain the power gain. Maybe you should take your engine apart and take some pics.
well i haven't gotten a CEL yet, but i really can't tell if my car is making more power or not...it does lope like crazy when it's cold and the thing eats gas like a V6 (it's not that bad, but i was used to 500km/tank) i'm still going to see if i can get this thing dynoed or atleast race a guy i know with a stock eco...and if i lose.....
So, so far i've paid $900 for less fuel economy, a bit of a lope and my exhaust sounds a little bit different (doesn't seem as deep anymore)...but no cels is good news and the car doesn't seem to be slower...
what's going on with everyone else who has these?
Arnjolt wrote:So you're saying my cams are timed wrong? I had pulled the entire side of the engine off to properly time these things. If anything, I'd say your cams are not timed with the marks which would explain the power gain. Maybe you should take your engine apart and take some pics.
yep, I have had mine off 3 times now and they are timed right
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
If you're boosted with these cams, shouldn't the intake be ret a couple degrees and exhaust adv a couple degrees, like the opposite?
I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time and for those 15 seconds, I realize, I need boost.
I dont know why you guys are @!#$ around with cams from a company that no one has probably heard of, who just put together some cam specs and had some grinds made.
Go to SCHRICK they've been making 3 stages of cams for the ECO's for years over in Europe. I had some sets of their 2 and 3 stages, stage 3 I sold for around $700, but no one was interested as it was TOO much money, so now you guys are @!#$ around paying $900 for cams that are @!#$.
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Well, I'm not going to get my car dyno tested again until I reach the next
stage in my mods. I know the results were correct for my car, that's
what matters to me. Both before and after runs were on the same dyno,
although the next dyno runs I do will probably be at a different shop,
as I no longer have access to the dyno that ran the original tests.
Put it this way: that same dyno ran about 126 hp on a totally stock
ecotec, and with my AEM CAI, on the baseline run, which was months before
having the cams installed, I was at 133.8hp. If this Darkstars guy is
saying only 6hp from the cams, I call major bs unless there's something
wrong with his car. There's no way that the difference I gained from
the intake was the same as what I gained from the cams, trust me, I
noticed a lot more of an increase. Also, the original dyno run files
were verified, and the temp readings on mine were normal(65-70
degrees), whereas on the screwed up people's runs they were over 200
degrees because of the sensor malfunction. The dyno compensated for
the perceived air temp/density by bumping up the numbers in the
calculations. That's what happened. We'll see if my car behaves any
worse with my major headwork, and exhaust happening soon..
04firetec
From all the @!#$ i have heard about these cams over the past couple months, it makes me belive their is something wrong with the cams/grinds. Unless your trying to make it come across like there are many many ppl that have installed the cams wrong and getting crap for luck, but i see it like this. WHY pay 700-900 for CAMS when A) they are causing so much headaches, and B) are unproven.
I know its really hard to tell over the internet b/c their could be so many other issues with the car/etc. but hearing this much bad about these cams leads me to belive something IS wrong. Still no word back on the full cam specs but then again i dont expect to.
I do belive that when these Cams are setup proper (wether they want to be advanced in timing, etc) they should make more than the 6hp mark... but its going to have to take someone to step up with adj cam gears and do the dirty work. If their is anyone in Minisota my offer is still open for a weekend of dyno work, but we have to work out a date/time.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Justin, I may take you up on that. I'm the one that dynoed at the 6whp gain at or beyond the rev limiter. I'm in michigan but would definitely be willing to head out there for a weekend. I'll drop you an email.
04firetec wrote:Well, I'm not going to get my car dyno tested again until I reach the next
stage in my mods. I know the results were correct for my car, that's
what matters to me. Both before and after runs were on the same dyno,
although the next dyno runs I do will probably be at a different shop,
as I no longer have access to the dyno that ran the original tests.
Put it this way: that same dyno ran about 126 hp on a totally stock
ecotec, and with my AEM CAI, on the baseline run, which was months before
having the cams installed, I was at 133.8hp. If this Darkstars guy is
saying only 6hp from the cams, I call major bs unless there's something
wrong with his car. There's no way that the difference I gained from
the intake was the same as what I gained from the cams, trust me, I
noticed a lot more of an increase. Also, the original dyno run files
were verified, and the temp readings on mine were normal(65-70
degrees), whereas on the screwed up people's runs they were over 200
degrees because of the sensor malfunction. The dyno compensated for
the perceived air temp/density by bumping up the numbers in the
calculations. That's what happened. We'll see if my car behaves any
worse with my major headwork, and exhaust happening soon..
ok if thats the case to prove yourself i will drive wherever you are and pay for the dyno session to prove you got 15 whp ...
i dont have the cams but i know darkstars has had my scanner since he got thewse things and it throws a code everyday and i want to be there to see dyno results
caviefreak: Ya know what I like about winter. Ya can get a bunch of beer out of the fridge and put it in the window sill so ya dont have to make as many trips out to the fridge
