Bill Sweeney wrote:After reading this thread, I think we'll look into doing a new porting guide for just these heads. Would you have any interest in something like that?
Bill, I would definitely be interested in a 2.4 head porting guide.
John, I'm actually porting my ecotec right now. I'm using carbide bits from KMS tools on a high speed drill to get maximum removal in minimal time. I also use those sandpaper flap wheels to do the polishing.. I have a dremel, but I have yet to use it, maybe for some fine touch ups...
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Absolutely Bill. sounds good to me. I have already done it, but I have an extra head lying in my basement I may port as well. <br>
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
alright, i'm interested seeing all of these pics, now who has some before/after airflow numbers? what are the CC's of the chambers before/after and also the bowls?
remember just because you hog the @!#$ out of a port to make it "flow" good doesnt mean your doing it right. the GM Vortec heads do not go by large runners because they rely more on velocity than air flow, theres a tossup and sweet medium to be had.
The pics look good though! <br>
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Manitoba Motorsports wrote:alright, i'm interested seeing all of these pics, now who has some before/after airflow numbers? what are the CC's of the chambers before/after and also the bowls?
remember just because you hog the @!#$ out of a port to make it "flow" good doesnt mean your doing it right. the GM Vortec heads do not go by large runners because they rely more on velocity than air flow, theres a tossup and sweet medium to be had.
The pics look good though!
we are trying to point out the basics here. this is for people that have no idea! we are not getting into combustion chamber swirl, port velocity, or epoxying. don't make this anymore complicated that it needs to be please.
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see ya!
Ok.. questions... now that I've re-read the thread
Do I need to replace the valve guides? Or not? If so.. how the hell do they come out??? Pound 'em out? One of the ones in the 96-98 head is broken.. part of it is still in the head.
Mmmm ok, think that's all for now. I'm sure I'll have more once I cut the junk head apart
...j <br>
<br><br><a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Oh MAN this is gonna be expensive... in the end... parts are gonna kill me!!
Gasket set ALONE is $178.35 Canadian (plus tax!). And I don't even know if that has all the gaskets I need. @!#$e.
Then valves... stock GM ones are $37.46 each for exhaust ones.. $25.19 each for intakes.. that's $500+ just there.
Springs $10.38 x 16 = $166.08
Seals $5.98 each x 16 = $95.68
Haven't even looked at lifters yet. Or retainers. Or water pump (yes, I may as well do that while I'm in there!)
Holy COW!! Now I have to research cheaper alternatives. Even Mantapart has GM beat at this point... (not that I'd ever see the parts)
...j <br>
<br><br><a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
ive got one last 2.4 head for sale here, its a pre 99. email me first $80 shipped gets it.
(incase anyone needs one).
<br>
farmerz24
Look at www.sivalves.com.. I got a set of brand new stainless 1mm oversized valves for my ecotec there for about $200USD if I recall.. I'm pretty sure they carry LD9 valves, maybe even performance valve springs too for the LD9(cheaper than GM), although stock springs are reusable unless they are high mileage. Valve guides, I wouldn't bother changing unless they are noticeably worn, they are a hassle, and generally don't wear out unless there is high mileage.. Valve seals are relatively cheap and a good thing to change. Retainers are generally reusable unless there is lots of wear present(unlikely). Hydralic lifters start to go after about 250k kms or so.. You can test them by setting them in place, and pushing on them. If there is no give, they are fine, if they sink down even a little, get rid of em. I guess it's not so bad doing my ecotec head, because I have 2 relatively low mileage heads to get parts from. Good luck finding what you need! <br>
The cylinder head gasket kit from FelPro has brand new valve seals, injector o-rings, etc...It has every gasket you will need from the head gasket up. The bottom end kit is a complete kit that has all the stuff for the oil pan area. I have used the head gasket kit, and it replaced every gasket that gets touched. It is a pretty inclusive kit and well worth the $178. So that will eliminate the need for you to buy valve seals.
The valves I got from Karo for a little over $200, and I got lifters for $250. Valve springs were $100 from Mantapart and I had them in 6 days (of course I live an hour and 15 minute drive from them)...The valve locks and retainers should be fine and can be reused. I wouldn't bother with the guides, just have them checked to make sure they are within the proper specifications.
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-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
John,
I picked up my valves and springs from Mantapart for $300. I used the stock retainers, valve guides and valve locks on my cylinder head
<br>
Jason
99 Z24
#25 to register on the Org !!
www.newdawncustoms.com
Johnny Mack Turbo Systems
Engineered Performance
John Lenko wrote:Oh MAN this is gonna be expensive... in the end... parts are gonna kill me!!
Gasket set ALONE is $178.35 Canadian (plus tax!). And I don't even know if that has all the gaskets I need. @!#$e.
Then valves... stock GM ones are $37.46 each for exhaust ones.. $25.19 each for intakes.. that's $500+ just there.
Springs $10.38 x 16 = $166.08
Seals $5.98 each x 16 = $95.68
Haven't even looked at lifters yet. Or retainers. Or water pump (yes, I may as well do that while I'm in there!)
Holy COW!! Now I have to research cheaper alternatives. Even Mantapart has GM beat at this point... (not that I'd ever see the parts)
...j
If you're looking for some performance gains, look at the larger valves that karo sells. I an not sure if he has the ones for your engine, but check here:
http://www.carcustoms.net/index.php?cPath=265_22_32
Their only $100, and their 1 mm oversized. That will give you some more air going in with that secret cam you mentioned using. The down side, you need to get a machine shop to redo the valve seats for the new larger valves.
I'm in the middle of re-building my head while I wait on my new engine from jbody performance. So, everything is getting replaced. For lifters, retainers and retainer locks, stock should do just fine if you're not going to go too extreme with your engine.
Do you plan on getting rocker rollers? or stronger pushrods? Valve seals i believe i got from advanceautoparts.com (local store pickup) and they were cheap. For the gasket, i searched in the boost forum, and found something called victor reinz head gasket, and people said those were even better then the copper ones. Said they've handled 22 psi without blowing. I think i'll get a set of that, but i haven't checked the price yet. gl with the build.
I'm rebuilding a 2.4L head.. no rockers, no push rods
But yes.. I'm looking for new lifters.. and I'm talking to Karo about the SS 1mm oversize valves. I just need to clean my head now, do the actual porting, get the valves, and have the valve job done... then buy gaskets and put this thing all back together.
What do I use to clean the head?? I would rather just do it myself than paying some shop to hot tank it..
I'll post more pics when I actually DO something
...j <br>
<br><br><a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Yeah, so... aside from a few issues (money, time, new car)... I finally did get around to porting one of the heads... it ended up being the head on the new car.. a 2000 2.4L.. I took it off the car, since I knew it was good (ran perfectly!!).
Here's a link to the finished pics:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=46&i=145212&t=145212
I took the engine & tranny out.. part of the 5 speed swap I'm doing.. stripped the engine down to just the block & bottom end.. then dropped it all out...
I took the head apart, cleaned it up, then did the porting.. I did a little bit of clean up on the intake sides, but not much really.. all I did was remove the extra chunks of metal that were poking out. I left the surface the same for the time being. Since the GM Supercharger is pretty much matched to this already, I left it alone. The exhaust side, well that was where the most time was spent. I port matched the exhaust ports to a stock exhaust gasket.. which the Bill's i-Performance header is already matched to.. so it will flow better. Then I smoothed out the exhaust ports to each valve quite a bit.. I couldn't even fit my first knuckle down the holes before.. I opened them up so I could jam my finger in all the way to the second knuckle
I used a die grinder and carbide bits w/ WD-40 to carry the excess away and keep the bits clean. I used a cylindrical burr, and a tulip-shaped one as well.
After the initial port-matching, I smoothed out the runners using the carbide burrs.. I removed a couple of odd bumps in the roof of the exhaust ports (behind the valves) then I switched to the large stone in the Standard Abrasives kit. I cleaned up the mess I'd made
smoothed some more... then I switched to the 40 grit sandpaper rolls. I only used two... then to the 80 grit.. again, only used two of them. Then I used the cross-buffs... brown then red.. they come WAY too huge to use.. wouldn't even fit in the port.. so I had to cut off most of the material to make them fit. Some WD-40 and they worked GREAT!!!
I started doing the whole job at home... on a 8 gallon 2.75hp compressor... way too loud... way too slow.. I couldn't run the die grinder all the time, had to keep stopping... took me 4 hours to do one port.. then I took it to work after hours, and used the BIG compressors
took me 2 hours to do all the work, and make the first port even better than it was. Definitely worth it.
I probably took off around 1/8th of an inch all around the exhaust ports... to match them. Man, they're huge now!! Then I took the head to the machine shop to have the 1mm oversize valves (from Karo) put in, and the head pressure tested. The machine shop guy took one look at the head and told me it wasn't bad work, but it wasn't quite perfect... but hey, for a home job it was pretty decent.
Didn't flow test the head... but the ports are at least consistent to one another... I kept comparing back and forth...
Anyway.. it's on the motor now.. as of last night... I'll be putting the rest of the engine together over the next couple of days (have to pick up my 95 intake cam!) then I'll hopefully have some good stories on the increased power
Bill.. if you're still around watching this thread.... the only suggestion I can make is that Standard Abrasives may want to consider offering a "Sport Compact" kit that has fewer pieces (and more useable ones) in it.. as suggested to me for the small engine kit.. I haven't seen it, maybe it's a better pick... but I feel that I've hardly touched this kit
All in all... worth it.. Hopefully it makes a worthwhile difference
<a href="http://www.lenkorules.com/"><img src="http://s93165229.onlinehome.us/images/zm/sig/LRDCsig3.jpg"></a>
Yeah I did not want to cut down the cross buffs, so I bought the small engine kit and the cross buffs fit perfectly. Only problem is there is not as big an assortment of cartridge wheels, etc. I have both kits and between I can port anything. Just would like some carbide bits to take more material off faster...As is without them it takes forever to make progress.
Oh well. Good job.
-da chinchilla
<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggamon/avatar15569_2.gif">
time to buy a 60 gal 7hp compressor
what intake manifold are you running on that beast? porting looks good for a beginner there can be some improvements than can be made in the bowl area. blending and smoothing out the roof next to the guide into the bowl but that still looks great. it takes a few heads before you get good. I did a set of camel humps for a friend's 64 impala this winter. they came out well. and that big car hauls the mail for a small block 30over 350. for most street applications you do just what you did. you will be happy with it i am sure.
great job!
and for what it's worth just because a head flow's well on a flow bench does not mean it will perform well. because your engine does not have a steady flow of air through out the valve lift range. the velocity changes as the piston goes up and down. just something to think about
see ya!
