I HAVE 3800 SERIES SC MOTOR OUT A WRECKED 2000 GRAND PRIX GTP AND I WANT TO KNOW IF THE MOTOR WILL BOLT UP TO MY 2.2 TRANS. IF SO LET ME KNOW .
THANKS FOR THE HELP
if its the 5 speed then yes it will, BUT!!!!!!! That engine never came with a 5 speed option so the computer will need to be reflashed. <br>
Is there any difference in the two different trannies that came in the Js? What I mean is, will they both be able to bolt up? <br>
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----All Your Cars Are Belong To Me!-----
If your talking about bolting them up to the supercharged 3800, i wouldn't bother using the 3 speed, the 4T65E 4 speed that comes with the V6 is what you want to use, its alot stronger than our 3 speeds. But as far as using the 5 speed from our cars, talk to Raven, i think he used a 5 speed from a 2200 motor. It bolted right up to the motor, but he needed a custom flywheel and clutch.
I'm using the 4T65E 4 speed for my motor swap, i have my reasons for not using the 5 speed. <br>
It bolts up to any 2.2L tranny. But if you are going with the auto tranny, stick with the one that came with the 3800 motor. If you are going with a 5 speed, what you wanna do is use a 2000-2002 2.2L getrag tranny. Thats the one I am using for my swap.
What darren said. Meckster you can use the auto out of the 2.2 or 2200, they are a tough tranny. auto or standard. I am using a 3.1 tranny for the swap, just because i had one laying around the shop. All the same. <br>
My cardomain site
doublez@eastlink.ca
I think you'll need to use the flywheel and clutch for the 2.2. Note that it cant be the stock clutch cuz it's gonna get MASSIVELY overloaded by the ammount of power that engine makes. And if the 2.2 tranny is older than 2000 then you'll break the tranny too.
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<img src ="http://www.j-body.org/registry/shooff/personal_pic.jpg">
Noise doesnt add horsepower. Horsepower adds noise.
"This is one 2.2 I wouldnt mess with" - DropTopPaul
The tranny needs to be a 2.2 from 2000+. You will need a custom flywheel (stock 2.2 flywheel will not bolt up) that you can get from Racetech in Toronto. You will also need a good clutch for a 2.2 I'm using a stage 4 Bully clutch and it is holding up great. Good luck with the swap and if you have any questions feel free to email me. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Almost forgot, you will also need to have the PCM tuned to remove all the auto settings. DHP (Digital Horsepower) can help you out with that. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
And dont forget about trying to find someone to fabricate this into your car. Seems to be a big issue that some have run into. No one willing to do the job. <br>
My cardomain site
doublez@eastlink.ca
I found a few local junk yard that are selling the 3800 s/c and i was thinking about getting one and droping it in to my 97 auto cavy. Like what problems will i run into as in like with the shifter counsel and stuff cause i know the shifters in the grand prixs come with a performance button. I know about the sub frame and trying to find someone to do the work for me cause i dont trust my own skills. I was wondering also if i can just drop in the grand prix gauges into my cavalier or will some custom work need to be done. thanks in advanced <br>
Ford Focus..... The American civic!
Some come with it and some don't, it all depends on what you get. If you want to keep that feature then you would have to replace the whole shifter assembly in the car. As far as the cluster goes you could use the grand prix gauges but you would have to modify the dash to get them to fit, they will not just drop in. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
yea i kinda figured that but like with the shifter isnt it going to be a hard to fit into the cavaliers shifter column <br>
Ford Focus..... The American civic!
is there a rwd trans for this engine? (im looking at swapping, and i have a 2 friends that weld that are helping me fabricate)
^^^ sure is, it came in the camero's. Good luck with that one though as the TB would be facing and most likely touching the firewall. I mean anything is possible but that would be a lot of work and modification to the body of the car to get it to work. If you have the money and skills go for it. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
hmm. it was sell the fire or keep and modify. so now i want rwd and a better powerplant. hell it can be american, jap whatever. id rather something with a program out to control it ( i already have a comp in my car). suggestions?
now the only question i have is. the sub frames for the grand prix that the motor mounts to, do you have to modify those to fit the cav or do you have to make your own for this swap to fit. see i have the 5 speed tranny but with adding the stiffer clutch and the stronger flywheel. will the input shaft to the trans will it hold up to the power of the motor.
and also will the half shafts hold up or do you go out and buy the titanium half shafts to compisate for the power. i know that s/c 3800 series 3 motor has about 234bhp, I'm afraid that the trans is not going to handle the power, because i can't afford to by another
trans right now. oh, and another question i need to ask is. do I need to get the engine harness, the ecu, and the pcm from the grand prix, and will the interior harness to the cav connect directly to the ecu of the grand prix. if there is laundry list i need to have on parts and accessories to do this please let me know ahead of time so I can get started on buy these items so I can do the work myself. I work at a dealership so I have access to special tools and lifts if need be. please let me know on what i need to do
thanks for the help
James
^^^
You will want to make your own subframe for this swap. I guess you could use the stock frame from the GTP but you would have to hack the sh*t out of it to get it to work. I'm not a fan of hack jobs so I would never recomend using the stock GTP frame, make one for the swap.
So far on mine the input shaft is holding up great. It does rattle a little bit at idle when the clutch is dis-engauged but I have seen that in most of them. I haven't had any problems with the tranny at all and I am pretty hard it (burnouts at the track, hard launches, etc) I even missed a shift into 4th and hit second and it did no damage to the tranny, it actuall bent my stage 4 presure plate.
Not sure where you got the HP figures but the series 2 engine is 240bhp and the series 3 is 260bhp stock. Right now I am using the sock axles, you will be fine with these on the street no problem. The tires just light up and spin if you hit it, I even run drag radials at the track and they have held up great. Now if you throw a set of full blown slicks on the car you might have problems but I can't be sure of that.
As far as parts that are needed you will need...
- 99+ engine (I say this because the TB was redesigned in 99 for better flow and some PCM settings are different) but an older engine will work too.
- 3800 PCM
- 3800 engine harness
- All accessories and brackets that come with the 3800
- 2000+ 2.2l 5-speed tranny
- Custom flywheel (Racetech)
- 2.2 clutch (I recommend bully Clutches)
- 2000+ shifter assembly and cables (if you have a pre 2000 car)
- 2000+ master (if you have a pre 2000 car)
- 2000+ axles for the 2.2l if you don't already have them
- Custom subframe and mounts (Double Z Automotive)
- Custom wiring harness (Double Z Automotive) The 3800 harness will not plug into the bulkhead of a j-body)
- Oil filter housing that puts the oil filter at a 45 degree angle to the crank pully not the one that puts it at a 90 degree angle (there are two from the factory)
- Oil filter relocation kit
- Custom tuned PCM (Digital Horsepower wil tune the stock 3800 PCM)
- Your stock power steering lines will have to be rebent
- Custom downpipe (local exhaust shop) If you want to run aftermarket headers a section of the firewall will have to be cut out and a tunnel built for them and you will lose your heater box
- Custom intake setup
- A/C delete pulley (you do have room for the A/C compressor but running the lines would be a pain
- Custom rad hoses (can be peiced together using the rad hoses from a 2nd gen)
- Battery moved to the trunk (there is room for it under the hood but a new battery tray would have to be made.
Thats pretty much everything I can think of off the top of my head, if I think of anything else I will post it up.
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Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Oh you will also either need to swap in the GTP gauge cluster or go with all custom gauges as the 3800 PCM will not work with the stock gauge cluster in the j-bodies. They only thing that will work in the j-body gauge cluster will be the speedo and every idiot light will be on in the dash. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
hey raven thanks for the help i really appericatie it alot this at least gives me an idea of
of what i will be getting in to. hey do you have any pics of the swap and any other info i might need, or words of wisdom you might want to share with me. but again thanks for the help
james
Hey no problem at all. I'm glad to help and it would be great to see a few more 3800 powered j's around
I have all kinds of pics af the swap, check out my cardmain page at
http://www.cardomain.com/id/raven_sc3800.
The first thing to think about is who is going to do the swap? If your going to do it yourself you can save yourself quite a bit of money. If not your going to need someone who can do the job. If you get the sub-frame and wiring harness from Double Z any reputable shop in your town can install it. If you are going to get someone local to you to build you the sub-frame and mounts do your research and make sure they can do it. Once you've decided how it is going to be installed get all the parts together and have fun. It's pretty straight forward once you have everything you need.
If you need any help with anything just send me an email or put a post up on the board. Good luck with the car. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
hey raven when are we gonna see some more vids of that sweet car of yours?
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The idea of swaping a 3800 in to my cavalier is very tempting. Do you have more info on the gauge cluster swap?
Black03coupe: Right now the car is in storage for the winter so you'll have to wait till I bring it back out to get some more video's of it, probably end of May. I should also have something new and very interesting under the hood when it does come back out.
Melaza: There are a few things that can be done. First you can just drive around with the stock cluster and get yourself an aftermarket tach. You will have a speedo and gas gauge but thats it and all the dummy lights will be lite up. Don't drive around without a tach, with the lightened flywheel from Racetech this engine revs very fast and doesn't like to be brought over 6200rpm on the stock valve springs. Secondly you can purchase a full set of gauges and run what you like...speedo, tach, fuel, batt, fuel psi, oil psi, etc. I would say this is the best way to go because you can make it to suit your needs. You can wire in a cluster from a GTP but you will have to modify the dash to get it to fit. It is bigger than the j-body cluster. The fourth option that we kicked around was to wire in the old PCM so that the stock cluster would receive the correct signal. It should work just fine but it will require mounting the old PCM and running all the wires and some of the dummy lights would still be on.
I'm going with all aftermarket gauges. I think that is the best way to go for a few reasons. I can use and place the gauges that I want. My tach will be in the center and everything else around it as that is the gauge that I use the most. It will also make for a much cleaner install. <br>
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Doublezed wrote:What darren said. Meckster you can use the auto out of the 2.2 or 2200, they are a tough tranny. auto or standard. I am using a 3.1 tranny for the swap, just because i had one laying around the shop. All the same.
Is this correct then, could i use the 3 speed auto on this motor? If so, it may make my swap a little easier. <br>
