i have a few questions in this post that im REALLY hoping you guys can help me with.
i did an engine swap a few days ago (a 2.4L from a grand am into my z24, because my 2.4L in my z24 sprung a few oil leaks and was idleing funny)
anyways now i have the new engine in and bolted down, and all the wires and vacuum lines in the proper place, but when you turn the key the starter turns and the flywheel turns and you can smell unburnt fuel.....
my friend said it sounds like it has good compression, meaning there is no spark. however its a distributor-less ignition system, so i dont know how to check for spark.
ALSO: would any of the main sensors cause it to not to spark? like the O2 sensor, the knock sensor, the camshaft or crank sensor or any pressure sensors?
and does it matter the engine came out of a grand am? do i need to re-program the ECU to set the ignition order or anything of that sort?
my car is my life, my freedom and my soul, and my thanks and apperciation goes out to anyone kind enough to help!
if you guys need any more info on anything just post and ill give the info.
thanks!
-Cameron (CaliforniaCavalier)
Girls make me mad and break my heart, but my car is always there for me.
You can buy a spark tester at NAPA for like $8 ya know.
Is all your primary and secondary connections nice and tight?
No sensor would not cause to it spark. However if say your coil wasnt plugged in, it wouldnt spark.
As far as needing a new PCM I really dont know.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Rob S wrote:No sensor would not cause to it spark.
Sorry Bob, but that's just flat out wrong.
The camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensors will prevent the engine from firing if they're not seen by the ECU. If I remember correctly, the crankshaft position sensor has an end that is strikingly similar to that of one of the a/c system connectors. There's also a couple other connectors that look identical to one another (can't remember specifically which though). If you don't have a service manual, you need one. www.alldatadiy.com can get you one online for $20 a year if I remember correctly. Get that and check all of your connectors. Check the colors of the wires. That's the only way to know that the right connector is connected to the right sensor when identical connector ends are being used.
Hope this helps.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Did you use your old IDI cover on the new motor? The differances in the ignition control module may be what is causing it to not start. Unburnt fuel smell, good crank, It all sounds like a bad spark somewhere. You may have the coil packs burnt too. The couil packs should be interchangable but the modules I don't think are. I just tried a 2.3 module on my car and it did not work. They told me it came off of a runing car and I had it sitting around so I put it in to see if it would work but it did not.
about a month ago i bought new spark plugs, 4 new coils, new boots and boot springs and a new coil housing. i just took all those parts off the other engine and put them on this new engine.
i dont know if the crank and camshaft position sensors are any good on this engine, so would you recommend i start with those?
also....if the starter was hooked up wrong would that keep it from running? i ran the wire from the bolt on the alternator straight to the + side of the battery, but my friend said that was wrong?
and i do have 2 manuals on the car, and cannot find anything that would be causing this....all the books give is stuff like "broken timing chain" or "bad ECU", stuff i know it isnt.
what should i do?
-Cameron (CaliforniaCavalier)
Girls make me mad and break my heart, but my car is always there for me.
also: my brother gave me some things to check first to eliminate:
1) check all fuses
2) check all 4 plugs for spark
3) Check and re-wire the alternator and starter
and maybe when i have all this done and the pictures on my computer, ill make a guide to doing an engine swap
-Cameron (CaliforniaCavalier)
Girls make me mad and break my heart, but my car is always there for me.
Mr. Pute wrote:Rob S wrote:No sensor would not cause to it spark.
Sorry Bob, but that's just flat out wrong.
The camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensors will prevent the engine from firing if they're not seen by the ECU. If I remember correctly, the crankshaft position sensor has an end that is strikingly similar to that of one of the a/c system connectors. There's also a couple other connectors that look identical to one another (can't remember specifically which though). If you don't have a service manual, you need one. www.alldatadiy.com can get you one online for $20 a year if I remember correctly. Get that and check all of your connectors. Check the colors of the wires. That's the only way to know that the right connector is connected to the right sensor when identical connector ends are being used.
Hope this helps.
Negative.
No the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors are usually magnetic or a hall effect. I think Cavs are magnetic.
Secondly the crank sensor is what tells the PCM to fire the injectors, he said he smells fuel so the CKP is telling the PCM to fire the injectors and they are firing.
Like I said get a spark tester, there is directions on the back how to use it.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
CaliforniaCavalier wrote:about a month ago i bought new spark plugs, 4 new coils, new boots and boot springs and a new coil housing. i just took all those parts off the other engine and put them on this new engine.
i dont know if the crank and camshaft position sensors are any good on this engine, so would you recommend i start with those?
also....if the starter was hooked up wrong would that keep it from running? i ran the wire from the bolt on the alternator straight to the + side of the battery, but my friend said that was wrong?
and i do have 2 manuals on the car, and cannot find anything that would be causing this....all the books give is stuff like "broken timing chain" or "bad ECU", stuff i know it isnt.
what should i do?
Dont replace those sensors, for one they are expensive and two you dont need them.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
ok, so i looked at the wire diagram and i know i hooked the alternator up wrong, at least wrong how it was before, but my question still is, would it keep it from starting if it was hooked up backwards? wouldnt it just not charge the battery?
-Cameron (CaliforniaCavalier)
Girls make me mad and break my heart, but my car is always there for me.
sorry for the double post, but:
is it possible to get some kind of a device so i can see if my ECU is throwing codes? or do i have to take it to a mechanic for them to check it?
if i can get the device myself, where can i get one and where do you plug it in at?
-Cameron (CaliforniaCavalier)
Girls make me mad and break my heart, but my car is always there for me.
To correct you an alternator does NOT charge the battery, it keeps the battery charged, if it charged the battery your alternator would be wearing out a lot more often.
Secondly did you buy the spark tester for $8 to see if you had spark.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
i'd bet your problem is the crank sensor, there is a sensor connector that is exactly the same, i believe it's the oil level sensor, switch it and see what happens
sunfirepower97 wrote:i'd bet your problem is the crank sensor, there is a sensor connector that is exactly the same, i believe it's the oil level sensor, switch it and see what happens
i thought someone else said the crank sensor ONLY controls the fuel injectors and the timing of those...not the spark.
and im going to check the plugs for spark first, as process of elimination, since the crank sensor is a &*$@ to get to.
-Cameron (CaliforniaCavalier)
Girls make me mad and break my heart, but my car is always there for me.
Yes, like I said before. Besides telling the PCM what cylinder is on TDC, the CKP sensor also tells the PCM to fire the injectors.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
and tell i to fire the spark
check the pins in the conectors, i did a swap in a fire gt, got a 2.4 outa a grandam and i had apparently bent the pins in the injectorplug and had a missfire. also seen this happen on other cars too. make sure they are all straight and not broke. u can use a small pick or something to get em right into place again.
Fireboy153
Brady Fire Co. - Station 150
Long Live The Sunflower! (yea its not so "cool")
Rob S wrote:To correct you an alternator does NOT charge the battery, it keeps the battery charged, if it charged the battery your alternator would be wearing out a lot more often.
I don't know where you get your information from, but it's WRONG. Alternator does charge the battery. You even stated that in your own words "it keeps the battery charged" By that statement, you are saying it charges the battery.
Rob, I know you are trying to help people out, but the information you are giving is wrong and from what I have seen, it has been ticking quite a few people off. Learn before you start giving out advice.
98 Z24
RIP Specks
ZSleeper wrote:Rob S wrote:To correct you an alternator does NOT charge the battery, it keeps the battery charged, if it charged the battery your alternator would be wearing out a lot more often.
I don't know where you get your information from, but it's WRONG. Alternator does charge the battery. You even stated that in your own words "it keeps the battery charged" By that statement, you are saying it charges the battery.
Rob, I know you are trying to help people out, but the information you are giving is wrong and from what I have seen, it has been ticking quite a few people off. Learn before you start giving out advice.
Technically speaking here it keeps the battery charged up. If it were to say charge the battery from to low of voltage to many times alternator death will occur. So it keeps the battery in a constant state of charge.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
You are now correct. It will not charge the battery if it is dead, but will charge it back up, let's say from after you start the car up. It's just a matter of wording to keep things straight and clear to understand.
98 Z24
RIP Specks
