I got an '82 Olds Firenza

1.8L "G" code, OHV, E2SE 2bbl Varajet feedback carb arrangement (Grrrr!)
automatic trans.

Had it about 18 months, man, this thing always ran great, till now.

It just started all at once. When going up a hill, it bogs down, then starts backfiring. It will die if i don't "baby" it just right.

on the straightaway, or if i have a decent run for a moderate hill, its so smooth you'd think it was a new car. Idles real well.

it doesn't happen right away when going up a hill. Then it starts to bog down, and backfire, and it will die. This only happens when the RPM's are fairly low. If i mash the gas pedal, it will die, unless i can get it to down-shift, then it picks up, until it shifts back up, then its at low rpm's again, and it bogs bad.

If i put it in 2nd gear, and keep the rpm's up, its okay., as long as i keep the gas pedal light. If i tromp the gas, it dies.

I had it scanned, after i took the mechanic for a ride, the scans all came back nothing wrong. The Haynes manual suggests a lot of stuff, but most of the sensors will set a code, and no codes are set. I changed the fuel filter to rule that out, no dice. I changed plugs, wires, cap, rotor, oil, filter, etc etc tune up once a year. No probs till now.

mechanic suggested Tran fluid, so i changed it, and screen and Tran pan gasket, no dice.

any ideas exactly WHICH sensor would be at fault? or what i should be looking for? At idle, if i rev up through the rpms slowly, the middle area *maybe* sounds a little soggy, but...unless going up a hill,this doesn't happen. I am suspecting the ECM isn't sensing the load, and leaving the timing advanced like I'm not under load, but...i dunno...

help!

i am thinking fuel. like injectors or pump. but you should goto your local dealer and get a can of BG44K and try that first. then seafoam it out. the BG is real strong fuel system cleaner.


see ya!

Being u have a carburated model,I would highly recommend replacing ALL the vacumm lines and fittings,auto zone or advance has this stuff.Second pull the EGR valve off and clean it,use a wire brush and carb cleaner and make sure the pintal inside it moves freely up and down.A simple way to see if the egr is malfunctioning is to just disconnect the vacumm line and if the problem goes away walah problem solved.U may have to rebuild the carb,a good thing to consider with its age or u may need a new intake manifold gasket if its leaking air vacumm would be lost creating ur problem.That's what comes to mind right off,I have a 85 cav tbi,and have pretty much redone all the above.If I think of anything else I will post it.Timing chain may b a issue but,if the timing is ON the money and no noise from the clanking rule it out.I keep check on ur finding.CLean that egr and do some new vac lines u would be suprised at the difference.Yes I am a oldschool J and love mine too.

well.....

i feel guilty being here, and all...you guys all have these J's because you want them, and collect them, and pimp them. I'm one of those people thats half decent at fixing old cars (more or less, lol...) so i just get 850 dollar cars, and keep them runnign as long as i can so i dont have to make a car payment.

The better mechanic you are, the more its worth it.

but, this thing is growing on me. I already got my 1.5 years from my 850 dollar car, and it just keeps runnign so well, heck, this things a gem. (sigh) I'm actually going to have to start DOING stuff to it to keep it in the pink, rather than just reacting when something breaks, lol.

UPDATE: normally I rely on my Haynes manual to guide me, and consult with other "shadetrees" over coffee to finalize repair plans. Haynes says the EGR when it has problems, typically shows up as rough, poopy running during deceleration. This happens only on hard acceleration. BUT...Haynes also says that 90% of the "difficulties" to be had with emissions in general, it usually turns out to be the EGR.

so, during slow spot at work, i went out to move the diaphragm like the haynes sugested to see if the EGR can move up and down "freely". I had tried this several times amready, and had concluded that my EGR wasnt to be checked in this way, was solid metal under there, LMAO. A kid at work went out with me, and we pushed and prodded, and sure enough, we got it to just budge a bit...hee hee. We worked up one side, then the other, and while i wouldnt say we "got it freely moving", it was moving a tad under huge pressure.

we took it for a ride, and i headed for the biggest hill in town. Damn...i couldnt MAKE it do it at all...for a couple minutres, then it did it, but much less bad. SO...I am thinking we didnt FIX it, but...we probably isolated it to the EGR. I bought another one so I wont have to WONDER if i cleaned it good enough or whatnot.

This is gonna make you guys that pimp the J's out kinda puke, but....When i first got it, it was "stalling out" at stop lights and train crossings. I figured out it was overheating, lmao. Took me a while to figure out the fan was NEVER on, ever! lol. I was changing out the radiator, and noticed that when i filled it, you know how you let the water run and burp it, then fill it and cap it? I noticed i boiled waiting and the fan NEVER came on, lol.

I just took the single power wire to the fan and jumped it to the battery...ran fine...ran a switch back with heavy rated wire to a toggle inside...when i am at a stoip light of idling, I flip the switch to make the fan go... (I can hear you guys groaning up a storm..."HOOPTEE MECHANIC", LMAO)

anyhoo, all this overheating before i did this, i figure thats what corroded and galled the metal on the EGR pintle up so bad...and probably cooked the rubber in it too. SO...i replaced it new, just havent installed it yet.

hmmm...i knew about the "finger push" test, i didnt know about the "vacuum test". I always somehow thought the manifold pressed up and the EGR was the right tension to allow the proper amount of push up from whatever valve or door was under it...i didnt realize it was PULLED up by vacuum, lol.

Oh well...let me disconnect the vacuum line to it and go up a hill...but i think i got this licked now.


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

RIGHT! lmao... still runs like crap up a hill...


BUT...there WAS that time right after we played with the EGR that it ran perfect for a while, then intermittent...now back to crappy. It makes me THINK thats it, or maybe i WANT it to be, lol, as i already bought the part.

so i says to my self, "self...that moving it making it temporarily okay should convince you, so its probably just stuck open right now"

i can almost believe it, at least enough to be out there at 4 in the morning with a wrench in my hand. 2 darned bolts...bolt 1, 1/2" wrench, ten seconds later bolt #1 is off...bolt #2 is a different story....

Jesus Christ on a stick! I love the little jokes in tech ref manuals...

like, "you may encounter some slight resistance from the retaining cir-clip". translation: get a crowbar and a come-along

and "remove the 2 bolts retaining the assembly to its base". Translation: figure out how to remove the OTHER 6 components blocking the path to bolt #2, THEN remove bolt #2.

it looks like the AIR componentry is in the way terribly well. Rather then disrupt all that assembly and risk breaking something i have never disassembled, i am going to wally world and see what they have in the way of offset wrenches or stubby ratchets that have hinges.

you know, without all this CRAP in the way, it would be a nice engine to work on (but then without all this crap here, most repairs wouldn't be needed in the first place...lol)




Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

okay...its worse than i thought, but, progress is progress.

i pulled a few wires and hoses, kinda at random, and did the uphill test, just to see if i could get lucky. no dice.

i got the meter out and spot checked a few items of interest. One i was definitely interested in was the O2 sensor. I didnt yank he sensor, but theres a pigtail just up the wire from it, i took it from there. around .1 t idle, some fluctuation, allnormal, goesup almost to 1.0 undr varying conditions of revving and backing off the throttle. No probs.

jumped the ecm connector, and readout the codes...all 1-2, 1-2, forever. Nada, just wanted to verify it. If i can trust the ecm on that, that rules out a LOT, well not definitely, but i wont START at problems thqt codes are associated with it.

my neighbor broke out the vacuum guage, heh heh. there aint no fooling those things. an old engine, it readsa few PSI lower than normal, thats normal given its long life. I cant expect pristine rings. The way the guage reacted, the list says carb/intake leak, or valve prob.

The egr doesnt even GET vacuum soit never hd a chance to operateinthe first place, LMAO. my neighbor is leaning towards carb/intake gasket leak. Actually, its looking like the feedback carb arrangement was actually adjusting around the problem as best it could up till now. It already had the fan now switching on when i got it, like ly thelast person overheated it ad cooked gaskets, and i know i did too., so, probably the carb gasket.

does the carb sit on a rubber mount? the air box lid screwing down is what really tightens it up, with teh air filter unit off, it can be rocked a good amount. If it aint on arubber plate to isolate the feedback sensorson the carb from vibration, looking more like carb gasket.


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

Well I figured it was either ur vacumm lines or intake manifold gasket or the carb gaskets.I am not sure which gasket u may need but,u should invest in a carb kit which in turn will come with all the essential parts u may or may not need in order to correct the issue.Being a tbi owner it's similar but yet different,as u may know.Basically its a carb with one injector over the carb basically.None the less you seem to have narrowed done the issue.Get the carb rebuild kit and replace all those toasted or worn by age gaskets,U would be suprised at the difference it will make.I asure u it made loads of diff for my old 85.

i was hoping if this was it, it would be the main carb gasket or intake manifold, lmao, i aint "carb boy", hee hee. Man, I wish i had TBI right about now, had 'em before, aint never had a lick of problem with a TBI unit before...lol


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

Holy $Hlt, batman...
before dawns early light, i "baby"-ed this heap over to wally world,and got masking tape for labeling connections, and ziploc baggies for holding components.

By dawns first light, I had a wrench in my hand...Oh...My...GOD. I have never seen anything to equal it, lol. You cant get to ANY of the carb mounting bolts without extensive gyrations and component removal. The last main mounting bolts, i *finally* got 'em off, but how i will get them back on, I'll never know (sigh) took 3 to 4 *hours* to remove the damn thing, lol. Reassembly, assuming that even *occurs*, will CONSERVATIVE estimate be twice that long (*groan*)

"GOD", my neighbor, lol, was right. Looks like carb. gasket leak. And by the way, this E2se carb DOES sit on a rubber mount, that in turn mounts to the intake manifold. Seems you can fool the 'puter, but not a vacuum guage, heh heh.

it looks all fine, thought i was wasting my time, or would have to delve even MORE into disassembly of the intake manifold if THAT was the leak, but...theres one back corner that looks "cooked" and has some cross sectional cracks that definitely, maybe, probably COULD admit air at times. This aint no carb gasket, its a huge rubber mounting block that separates the intake from the carb mounting. It has some kind of electric grid preheater on it. I wonder how many days it will take to order and GET a replacement? (sigh) might be out of work for a while whilst i wait.

After i GET the darn thing, I *DREAD* getting it back together (sigh). Oh well, "courage, SEDstar...COURAGE."

Well, lets hit the phones and see how long it takes to get another one, and whose gonna drive me to get the thing, hee hee.

The only up-side, is that since theres no gasket, per se, just this huge rubber thingy, i likely wont mess up a delicate gasket during reassembly, which is gonna be a bear.

PS - the guy who said it might be a carb leak, was right...thanks dude.


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

WOW...finally found the rubber carb mounting block, electric pre-heater thing. Took two hours by phone, and everyone kept acting like I was looking for parts for a model T, lol. FINALLY located one, 140 dollars for a carb gasket!! (argh...)




Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

140 for a gasket? When I bought my reconditioned carb for my 83 AMC Eagle SX/4 sport it was like 90 total and it came with gaskets. You could always make a gasket with that gasket maker stuff, kinda looks like liquid nail, idk how well it works tho. Also check your cat, that could be full or clogged. Check the fuel pump and filter, and a carb rebuild never hurt anything.




Girls suck, buy a fast car.

Okay, then...starting to get somewhere by degrees. Underneath it all, theres a half-decent engine with miles left on it, that can run well and smooth when it feels like it.

My neighbor, then me, were wondering why the carb could be rocked back and forth 25 degrees or so left right, lmao. When i found the rubber thing masquerading aa a carb gasket, i fugured that was it. (sigh) What i forgot to figure in was the "retard quotient", hee hee

I'm one of those guys, if theres going to be any semi complicated disassembly process, to aid reassembly i'm a whoosy that tapes both pieces of anything i disconnect with matching numbers or a clear label, and ziploc baggy related tiny stuff. Its supposed to speed reassembly process, but in my case, it rather makes it possible, lmao.

so when i got my brand new 140+ dollar carb gasket (I HATE the sound of that, lol) i saw it has 4 moutning holes. Funny, i only remembered two when i got to it. Huh. Probably for use on multiple cars? Nope... upon reassembly, i quickly saw that two of the holes were missing. North and south had been there, just east and west were missing from the get go. Ziploc baggies and labels confirm this. My dad had already left, so i had to walk to town and scrounge proper thread pitch. Fun.

walkedback up the BIG hill (huff, puff, koff...) and got the thing secured. Reassembly went much more smoothly than i anticipated, within an hour I was ready to go. Must have made all connections perfect, started as soon as the bowl filled up. Bliss...except for it STILL does it up hills, lmao. Make no mistake, its much more smooth before it, yet it still does it just as bad. (sigh)

so i spent all day and all night (literally) about 12 hours straight, just going over stuff trying to grok this system. Multimetered everything in sight, watched the O2 sensor voltages real time, disconnected the mixture control solenoid to watch the O2 values follow predictably, everything seems fine.

Annoyed the whole time that the computer laughingly keeps telling me "no codes", I decided with nothing else better to do, to prove the comp WOULD store a trouble code. I disocnnected the O2 sensor and was annoyed it wouldnt throw a code for it. Everything else i did this with, not only would it throw a code for the sensor, which i could then clear, it helped me identify some mystery sensors and components and locate others.

If I broke a random connection, the code thrown would tell me what i would find if i followed the pigtail, hee hee. I am sneaky.

All to no avail, other than understanding the systems better, though. Now...from the first time i heard the first backfire, and felt the "bog down" on hills, My first thought was "timing off". If it were an older style car, i would assume the mechanical advance was stuck in the fast position, and was not retracting when going up a hill, boggin g down and backfiring because it was 20 degrees advanced in low rpm's under load.

Unable to SHAKE that initial impression, I decided to TREAT it like its a mechanical advance stuck in the advanced position. How to crack this nut, and test this theory? Having already disocnnected nearly everythig ELSE one at a time for test runs, I looked at the distributor.

Now, engineers can do a lot to a distributor, but its STILL a distributor. No timing/advance/retard system can be so advanced its not still a timing system. SOMEthing might be sticking even if its electrical rather than mechanical. The more I look at the distributor, i realize its stilla distributor. Something spins and fires plugs.

And...when i check and set timing, i have to take this pulg out of the base of the distributor to make sure i am setting trhe BASE timing. BASE timing, indeed. 6 or 8 degrees BTDC. Somethng moves the timing forward so i can do ninety on the highway. It aint the distributor, must come from that plug. YANK THE PLUG!

Plug wont come out, but...traced back, a couple wores go back into the "netherworld" of huge harnesses, and four others pigtail into some conglomeration of components that do whatever. I broke the connection, then test drove it.

if nothing else, i expect extra smooth idle with simple BTDC base timing. Cool. VERY smooth. Acelerated like an older style car that way. Cool. Even that tiny "half miss" once every 30 secs was missing. The rev told me somethign was different. Test drive...woo hoo. Hills were no problem. I could not GET it to do the bog down or backfire.

I eventually GOT it to do it, but its very rare, and i almost have to TRY, and its quite rare. I can live with that for now.Plus, I know for a fact its SOMEwhere in the ignition, and its not the coil, now the pickup or the reluctor, etc etc. Its in the CONTROL. Since i couldnt get the connector out of the dist., which would probably have eliminated it completely, I DID manage to kill several of the control wires. I can tell my highway cruising mileage wont be there anymore like this, but i can still do 60 with a tad more gas pedal.

Now...since not ALL the control wires going into the base of the distributor SCREWING UP THE TIMING, i cant rule out the distributor components completely, but i can rull out the normal stuff. I am tempted to plug the connector back in, and just cut the four control wires...but...with it happening but only once in a blue moon, and disappearing fast, I am thinking "distributor ignition module", what do you think? I think it does better when its not receiving advance retard signals.

I expected beaking the connector would throw a code for the ESC electronic spark control, but instead this connector threw a code "Computer not receiving vacuum reference signal BlahBlah..." lol, GOOD!

I disconnected the pigtail that turns on the heater unit in the 140 dollar carb rubber mounting block, so if it ever sticks on it wont screw up my expensive carb gasket, lol. I can live with 2 minutes of rough idle till it heats up.

If i could only get a REAL distributor onto this thing, with a mechanical or vacuum advance, that would cure this completely, i think. No chance of this working? It wouldnt affect emissions any, those systems are in sensors and the carb feedbacks, theyre intact. The timing has little to do with emissions since the test is just an idle and rev in neutral with no load.


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

try replacing intake gasket. my 96 fire has a low RPM buck, missfire problem at 2,500 and below b/c itneeds an intake gasket



96 Sunfire,SE/GT, 2.4L Twin Cam, est 180hp

Ok a few things,one have u checked the Thermo-sensor which is inside the air cleaner.Its mounted on top near the snorkel hose that flap inside should move freely make sure if u hook a vac line to it,that it does not leak air and the metal flange inside operates properly.Secondly I just discovered on ONLY on carb models U have whats called a altitude compensator which detects ambient pressure changes like weather,and altitude.This sends a signal to the ecm to adjust air/fuel ratio and spark timing!This is located behind the glove box taped to the ecm wiring harness.That's what my book of wisdom says nothing more.I will check my chiltons online to c if there's more and post if I find anything about it.WOOhooo.This may b the issue,mayb but ,don't hold ur breathe.

that altitude compensator can also be called a barametric pressure sensor



96 Sunfire,SE/GT, 2.4L Twin Cam, est 180hp

changed ignition module, no help there.

in desperation, i pulled the plugs to put new plugs in...

plugs 1,2, and 4 were perfect...right color and everything, plug #3 the electrode was eaten away down into the ceramic, lol.

but, the plug wires have too long rubber boots, so i ran the battery down cranking, lmao. my buddy brought over a new plug wire set for me, and i trimmed the rubber back to make it easier. STILL waiting for my battery charger my boss "borrowed" like 3 years ago (grrrr!!!) "No, you have it, I remember you taking it back..." right, this is the third time i've needed it and didnt have it GRRRRR!

oh well, i'll see if that temporarily fixes it.

cant be timing prob, as that wouldnt eat just ONE plug and leave the other perfect. that also rules out the carb, and sensors, and a lot of stuff, lmao.

if it wasnt just a bad plug, and it returns, i am thinking...intake gasket leak on that cylinder, or stuck intake valve...? any other possibilities if it wasnt just a bum plug?


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?

okay...i thinksomething finally went, lol. For some odd reason, it wouldnt start back up for another "check". That cylinder is the obvious problem area. Constant cranking with the air cleaner off, I could see "chuffs" coming out of the carb and spraying gas everywhere, lmao.

cant be plugged up exhaust, or it would never have ran okay, and it would not have had one problem cylinder. I am leanign towards a:

valve, rod or lifter, or god forbid, a lobe on the cam.

until the "chuff" it spins freely, then it will "lock up" but not a MECHSNICAL lock, softer yet firm, more like a "pneumatic lock". SO i am thinking the valve isnt timed right, i suppose intake on cylinder #3. I have to do compression, etc etc, and isolate it further.

I held open the secondary a bit with a thin screwdriver, and cranked thru it, lol, got it started once or twice, but MAN it was rough running, and it never "came back". I guess whatever was going, finally "went", lol.

if compression and such indicates a valve, i suppose I...

(1) take the valve covers off and crank with plugs out to observe, I'm looking for stuck or extreme lash problem.

I guess if the compression of the rings aint too bad for its age, I will consider taking the head off and servicing the valves and such. Its not an overhead cam, so i can basically just kind of lift it off, eh? If theres nothing amiss in the valve train, off comes the head, then i can turn the engine and dial indicate the rod lift, and compare to proper cam lobe lift?? Oh well, off to study the manual unless my mechanic buddy I got coming over can spot something ridiculous i missed.

This might just be the time i have to go in there and do the internal engine components (shudder) done everything else, why not?? LMAO courage, courage...lmao. Its only a 4-cylinder, and parts seem to be very reasoable for 82 GM 1.8L OHV engines. If the bottom end and cylinders are pretty decent, i might "go for it".

would be nice to have a new intake and exhaust gasket, anyways.


Is an '82 Olds Firenza a "Flash Ride" ?