Hello,

I am a new member here, learning about this site from another internet forum. I am not familiar with the J-body platform, however I am familiar with GM products, having owned a 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme International 5-speed, a 2005 Chevrolet Colorado Z71 LS, and currently a 1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL.

Anyways, my fiance's car, a 1997 Pontiac Sunfire 2.2 3 speed, totally died on her last week. She was driving home and the engine just quit. I haven't been able to start it yet. The starter will turn the engine over, but it won't fire.

In an attempt to diagnose the problem, I have

-checked for spark on each cylinder by grounding a spark plug to the exhaust manifold, each cylinder has spark
-checked all fuses and swapped the fuel pump relay with the AC relay
-tried to start the car on starting fluid
-verified the fuel pump still works by listening for the "hum" with the key in the "ON" position

After doing these things, the car still won't start.

I believe I don't have a fuel problem because if I did, the engine would start on starting fluid. I also believe I don't have an ignition problem because each cylinder is developing spark. I don't believe this is a compression problem because the car doesn't burn any oil, runs excellent, and only has 80,000 miles on it.

I picked up a Haynes manual for this car, and it listed a bad Crankshaft Postion Sensor as a possible cause of a no start; however it offers no information on diagnosing the Crank Position Sensor, just replacement procedures.


I really need to get this car back on the road as my fiance is driving my Cutlass and I have no car now. I also have to fix this myself because I can't afford to send it to a shop. Any help would be very useful.

1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD

i have had this problem more than once with my car, I have a 2001 2200. As a matter of fact it happened to me twice...both times all i had to do was change the fuel filter. They say they last about 30,000 miles but for me it always cuases problems over 25,000. Hey you should try it...Im not sure if yours is the same but make sure you have 2 open end wrenches. Mines needs like a 20mm and a 14 or something. After you change it turn the key on and let the system pressurize, you might have to do it like 4 or 5 times. Try starting the car...Im assuming the Air filter is clean cause you said you used starting fluid. Hope this helps

I assume the fuel filter isn't at fault because the car won't start on starting fluid.

If the engine wasn't getting fuel, it'd still start on starting fluid.

Is my assumption correct? The fuel filter is quite old.


1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD

First, I should ask if the engine had been ticking before this problem. If so, does the car tend to turn over kinda fast now?

It seems to me that you should be getting both fuel and spark. It would take a really clogged fuel filter to prevent the car from starting.

Zach wrote:First, I should ask if the engine had been ticking before this problem. If so, does the car tend to turn over kinda fast now?

It seems to me that you should be getting both fuel and spark. It would take a really clogged fuel filter to prevent the car from starting.

The engine has ticked as long as I've owned it. It's also had few oil changes in it's life.

It does turn over quickly also.


I assume you think the timing chain failed?


1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD

just to be sure, the theft light isn't flashing is it?

Sounds EXACTLY like a broken timing chain to me.

Good luck with that Hopefully you didn't send a valve into a piston. If you search this forum (or maybe its in this forum's archives now) I wrote a FAQ on changing the chain and tensioner.

Oops, meant to add that you should pop the timing cover off and take a look. If it is broke, then I would pull the head and check for damage before I replaced the chain/tensioner.

99firese wrote:just to be sure, the theft light isn't flashing is it?

No cluster lights are flashing.


1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD

Zach wrote:Oops, meant to add that you should pop the timing cover off and take a look. If it is broke, then I would pull the head and check for damage before I replaced the chain/tensioner.

Could I diagnoise a failed timing chain with a compression gauge?


1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD

Kevin Dennis wrote:

Zach wrote:Oops, meant to add that you should pop the timing cover off and take a look. If it is broke, then I would pull the head and check for damage before I replaced the chain/tensioner.

Could I diagnoise a failed timing chain with a compression gauge?

I would think so. Also, if the oil filler is in the valve cover, you may be able to see a portion of the valvetrain with the cap removed? Crank it and see if it's working....

No, you can't diagnose a failed timing chain with a compression gauge.

The oil filler is integral with the dipstick, it isn't in the valve cover.

A member at another forum said the valve cover gasket is rubber and reusable, can anyone verify this? If so, I'll pull the valve cover and see if the rockers move when the engine cranks over.



1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD

The valve cover is quite easy to remove and does use a "reusable" rubber type gasket.

Yah take the valve cover off, turn over the motor. If the cam isn't moving..hehe well I think you know what your gonna be pulling apart now. Hey it could be worse,say a 2.4L chain snapped. Ne-waz I don't believe the 2.2 ohv is an interferance motor, meaning the valves will not touch if the chain snaps. I also belive you can test a broken chain with a pressure gauge. If the stroke was on intake or exhaust and not compression..theres no way your going to get any psi on that gauge when it turns over..providing the chain is snapped

If the car still doenst start even with the starting fuel, then it could very well be a bad crank position sensor. If that is not working it'll throw thigns out of whack and ur fuel will just flood the engine.

Be sure that the injectors are working aswell, i had my crank sensor go and it took out 2 of my injectors too.




Ryan1

Zach wrote:Sounds EXACTLY like a broken timing chain to me.

Good luck with that Hopefully you didn't send a valve into a piston. If you search this forum (or maybe its in this forum's archives now) I wrote a FAQ on changing the chain and tensioner.

Sounds like a timing chain to me....especially since I just had my 96 2.2L Cav put into the shop for a new engine because of a broken timing chain....I could be wrong though



JBOK.org & Insane-Customs.com

My 97 Sunfire just died last year. It turned out to be the altenator. But this year for the sunfire seems to be teamed with problems. Mines constantly in and out of the shop. Half the time they cant diagnose it.

I just had a problem with mine, turns out my plugs were fouled out, which wasn't burning fuel and sending into the exhaust which clogged the Catalytic Converter, and made my car putter real bad and eventually stall out.

So what i am saying is Remove the spark plugs and make sure they are not fouled, by you saying that it is not spark ( i am assuming you just took the wire off to check for spark ) If this isn't it i would also have to say something to do with the timing chain, or maybe even the starter not contacting the flywheel properly ( maybe it slipped out of place )

So check these thing and then fill us back in.

I think you grounded the plugs as you stated in the first post, or Cavyman makes a good point.

and yes if you have a compression gauge you will be able to tell if the timing chain is off/broken. Why people think you cant is beyond me.

If i were you id check for compression first before tearing anything apart.

If your compression is good move the crank posi sensor

I pulled the valve cover off, and the rockers don't move when my fiance cranks the engine over. Guess the timing chain failed.

Zach, do you have that timing chain FAQ?

My Haynes manual says I need to remove the oil pan to pull the timing cover, WTF?

Do I need new sprockets also, or will a chain and tensioner suffice?

Also, I'm wondering if I should pull and check out the head before, or just replace the timing chain and retime the engine, and then run a compression test.


Any thoughts, ideas, or tips and tricks?



BTW, the 2.2 pushrod is an interface motor, meaning the pistons can bend valves if the timing chain fails.




1997 Pontiac Sunfire
1993 Lexus ES300
1982 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD