Ok, so this is a new one for me. I've changed the pads and rotors on this car (2001 cavalier 5-speed manual 2.2) a few times and never had this problem until this morning - when I sure didn't need any more surprises.
Got the driver's side done - no issues. Over to the passenger side - finishing up and when I went to ratchet in the caliper bolts that I had just taken out, cleaned up and lubed - they stop going in while still sticking way out from where they started, where they should be and where the other side ended up - which is sunk-in a bit into the caliper. This time, I figured I may have crossed the threads, so I backed them all the way out, looked over the situation, scratched my head and jiggled the caliper making sure it was seated in the right spot. No change. Now I inspected the rubber thing, lubed that too - made sure it wasn't ripped and no change. I ended up just tightening these guys as hard as I could and put everything back together only because I really had no other choice. But I don't feel good about it. Tested the brakes -everything seems to work fine and no strange noises or sticking, no lop-sided stopping, nothing odd. But something isn't right if those two bolts are sticking out like that.
Anyone else had this happen? What was the problem and what is the fix? I guess I could go get new bolts but I didn't see anything wrong with the ones in there. I'm stumped.
Thankx
Since you've put new rotors and pads on the car and because the calipers on these cars "float" on the caliper bolts (via the black tube mounted inside the caliper that the bolt goes through), it may seem that the pin isn't going in far enough. It's might actually be because there is more meat on the brake components and the position that the caliper sits on the bolts is different after installing new. Look at the driver side and compare it to the pass side and see if the amount that the bolt sticks out is the same on both sides. I had a very similar experience to what you're describing and it was just because of the change in placement of the caliper with the new pads and rotors installed. Your caliper piston might be sticking out more on one side making it seem as if it's misaligned. It's really tight but you should actually be able to grab the caliper on top when it's installed 100% and "float" it slightly on the bolts (this assuming you lubed everything up real nice). If the bolts look to be sticking out the same on both sides after driving the car (and you didn't think there was an issue with the other side) it's just likely that you didn't notice it on the drivers and you happened to notice when doing the passengers.
If they're different completely, you might need to change the black rubber sleeve bushing in there and lube everything up real good. If the caliper is no longer floating and has seized over the rubber sleeve you will get uneven brake wear and the pin will seem to stick out or go in further than the other side depending which way the caliper is stuck. I have made it a habit to replace the rubber sleeves every time I do new brakes in order to ensure the caliper is floating equally to achieve equal wear and the longest brake life as possible.
Check and reply back.
2002 Blue LS Sport Coupe 5-speed
My Paint Restoration Project -->
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=11&i=170933&t=170933
Try reversing the rubber bushing. Happened to me once i was like wtf and turned out the bushings were backwards
ReD RaiN
These two passenger side pins are definitely about 1cm further out than they have ever started or ended and unlike both on the driver's side which ended in exactly the same spot they started so these two are the only one and the only time that his has happened on this car. When I push the pins out, I clean off the pins and shine a flashlight through the boots to make sure they look good inside. I haven't changed them. (how often do you need to change them if they appear fine? and how do you do that? do you need a special tool or do you just shove them in by hand? I ask because if I have the chance, I am going to take that wheel off this weekend and other than trying to change the boots, I have no idea what else to even try). Now I will say that I noticed that I was starting to run out of brake cleaner after finishing up the driver's side, so I didn't use any on the passenger side pins, but I did wipe them off, and then apply a load of caliper lube to both the pins and inside the boots. Could this all be because too much crud/dirt got jammed into the threads and when I ratcheted them back in - it somehow got compacted along and inside the threads? That seems really unlikely. I suppose it is possible - but again unlikely - that I dented or damaged the very tips when I used a screwdriver to push them out at the start.
Hmm.. I guess anything is possible with regards to the threads. Just get a cylindrical wire brush with some more brake parts cleaner and clean out the threads really good to be sure. If the threads are clean and the bolt threads in nicely (demonstrating that the threads are not boogered up) I'd say this has to do with the floating of the caliper over the bolts. Trust me, you can physically grab the caliper when its completely installed and move it slightly over the pins and it should slide ever so slightly. It wont be easy but this is how the caliper retains even pressure with the pressing force (the piston) pushing from the inside only. Essentially the entire caliper is sliding on the bolts as the piston applies pressure in order to equalize the pressure from the inside and outside pad against the rotor. That 1cm is from either the new pads/rotor material and/or the sliding mechanism.
To remove the black rubber sleeve/boot just dig under it with a small/medium flat head screwdriver and push the screwdriver along the seam of the boot and caliper to separate it. I say to do this because it's typically really stuck in there. Once you break the bond around it, you can just dig under it and push it out. (You might be able to just push it out right away but I have found that the seam typically needs worked first to separate it) I use a larger flat head when it comes to pushing it out. Once boots are removed, clean that opening in the caliper out real good before you put the new boot in. When you do put the new ones in, one side has a tapered head that goes in first and makes it pretty easy to install. I can't remember the exact orientation of which end of the hole you insert them into the caliper; just take note to the old one before you remove them and install them the same way.
I have always used Bostik Never-Seez on these bolts to ensure they stay lubed good, soft, and prevent them from sticking to the bolts (that crap goes a LONG way so use sparingly, also don't get it on anything you dont want it on permanently). If the bolts stick to the boot the caliper won't float properly and the pads will wear like crap. I think I said it previosuly but the pads come with new boots and I always change them every brake job. Good luck man
2002 Blue LS Sport Coupe 5-speed
My Paint Restoration Project -->
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=11&i=170933&t=170933
Thanks very much for the reply. After 24+ hours of driving around with perfectly performing brakes and not sounds, or pull to either side, I sure hate to rip everything apart again but I think I am going to just cuz it just wasn't right to have those things sticking out like that. I went to check the prices and availability for new pins and boots and they are cheap. One thing though - they sell the bolt/pins along with the metal cylinder thing. I assume this is what the rubber boot slides into? Any tricks to getting those things in and out? I have never changed or had a reason to change anything except the rotors and pads on my Cavalier. Trying to save $3 on another can of brake cleaner is probably what the difference was yesterday since that was the only difference between the drivers side with no problems and the pass side with the problem. Money solves a lot of problems.
Thanks again.
I'm not sure what you mean by metal cylinder thing? The rubber boot slides into the mounting holes of the caliper. The pin/bolt then slides inside the boot. My post above gives detailed instructions to removing the boot from the caliper. Pretty sure that boot goes from inside towards the outside when installing.
2002 Blue LS Sport Coupe 5-speed
My Paint Restoration Project -->
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=11&i=170933&t=170933
Yeah, when shopping Advance or Autozone, the rubber boots and the metal bolts are two separate items. I am def gonna get a set of the rubber things, but for the bolts, I can't figure out what the cylinder things are as shown here:
Your text to link here...
I don't see any corresponding part on my brakes.
Those cylinder things are glide sleeves. They go inside the rubber boot. The bolt goes through those. Those are what the caliper "floats" on.
ReD RaiN
Well that's just effing great. Yesterday, i went to Autozone to ask the guy that question and he not only told me he had no idea, but that store - nor any other location in the entire area - had the things anyway so I couldn't even take a look to see or buy them if i thought i needed them. I figured i would buy a new can of brake cleaner and the rubber bushings/boots and that should be all i need - since I assumed that the bolts slid right in inside the rubber boots so if i cleaned the bolts, greased them up AND replaced the things they slid along, i was covered.
So now you're saying that the actual thing that makes contact with the bolts as they slide isn't the rubber boots and I need to track down and buy the whole new bolts just to get the sleeve? this is ridiculous. Even if i did all of that, i still don't know if it would even solve my mystery of the bolts not going all the way back in. This was just my best guess as to what to try.
FML
I forgot to mention that i had a set of calipers that didn't have the metal sleeves. Instead the bolt was designed to replace those sleeves. Anyone else come across this?
ReD RaiN
I guess I am a lot more stupid than I thought. My mind is kinda blown only because I have changed the pads and rotors at least 3 previous times on this car - and I have never removed, seen outside the caliper, or replaced the metal sleeves or rubber boots. All I have done the previous times is what I did this last time last week - unscrew the pin/bolts and grease them up and then put some more grease on my pinky finger and grease the inside of - what I thought was the inside of the rubber boot that the pin/bolts slides / screws into. Have I been doing it totally wrong all this time?
Where exactly is the grease supposed to go? Let's say I get a break with the rain and can finally jack up the car, remove the wheel and unscrew the bolts again and take the calipers off. Next to me, I will have the metal bolt/pins covered with grease. Then lets say I do some more digging and pull out what I now - apparently - have found out is the rubber boot with the metal sleeve inside of it. Then next to me I will have everything. Where is the grease supposed to go - between the bolt and the sleeve or between the boots and the sleeve (but not where I have been putting it between the bolt and the sleeve? Or is it just supposed to go everywhere? I'll need to buy more grease if that is the case. I just got a little $5 tube of the permatex green stuff which usually has been more than enough but I used most of that last week.
Of course none of this really explains the original problem - which is the reason I started on this thread the other day - with those two passenger bolts sticking out. Now I wonder if it is because I am a moron and just got lucky all the previous times.
Thanks.
Sometimes things get missed when ur focused on something else. Anyways id grease all of it. Comes out easier next time and helps with corrosion and longevity
ReD RaiN
