there's a sound of "popcans with rocks in them" when ever I start the car. A garage says the motor is toast! Did something let-go or come undone??
Does the engine need to be replaced or removed to fix this problem??

Is it a temporary noise that goes away after a few seconds, or does it continue? Either one isn't exactly good, but if it goes away, at least it may buy you a little time.
Excessive noise like that is usually from lots of clearance between parts - where there shouldn't be. If the noise goes away somewhat after a few seconds, then the oil is helping to fill the space - but that's not exactly ideal. By design, the oil is supposed to fill that gap, but there are limits on how big that gap can be before it's too big.
Try to give us more details on which engine you have, how long the noise lasts, and where in the engine the noise seems to be coming from (bottom, top, one side, etc). Odds are that you will probably need to shop for a good used motor in the near future based on the detail so far. Did you go a long time before changing the oil, over-rev it, or overheat it at all? Any of those can cause premature wear and damage that's probably not easily repairable. It's often cheaper to replace the motor than try to fix the existing one - especially if you aren't doing the work yourself.
John

I didn't think it was going to be a very good diagnosis.
The engine is a 2.4 in a '99 Sunfire GT. Surpeisingly it has 300,000 kms on it ,with regular oil change intervals. This came up after an oil change not 14 days before.
The GM manual has no suggestions,other than a connecting rod being bent, so I'm assuming an engine swap is in the future.
Other than Sunfire's and Cavalier's are there other cars that have the same motor? Calling a wreckers and asking for a Sunfire GT motor is like asking for a Cadillac tail-light, I'm sure there must be a cheaper solution ...

The noise sounds like its near the top, almost like valves. The car starts with easily with this chunky sound, but the idle at start up is higher RPM and makes it sound worse. If I shift it into 'drive' right away, its not as bad,but if you touch the gas pedal it gets clunky again...

The manual shows the valve train is fairly easy to access, would this be a good place to start?

Thanks for reply,
R

That it "came up" all of the sudden makes me wonder if John's explanation entirely covers it. If possible, I'd try to get a second opinion (or at least one with a more specific diagnosis than "it's toast"). It might be something cheaper to fix than doing an engine swap, but only if you get it fixed before something detonates itself. Definitely a tough situation, considering the high mileage.




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If the noise gets worse (or changes) between being under load (acceleration) and deceleration, then I would suspect something in the bottom end. If it seems to be directly connected with engine speed regardless of load, then it could be in the valvetrain.

With that many km on there, odds are that much of the engine has accumulated a fair bit of wear by now. I wouldn't rebuild one half of an engine that that mileage myself - unless it's something as simple as a broken rocker arm or something like that. Even at that, I would think twice before paying someone to spend a couple of hours messing with it (assuming you're not doing it yourself). If you want to get into it yourself - at least you probably don't have much to lose at this point - and you could probably learn a lot.

I believe I've heard that timing chains can be noisy or troublesome on that motor - if so, the noise should be rather obviously coming from that area. I'm sure that's not exactly a fun job to change, but not impossible if necessary.

As for other cars that use that motor - I believe that they were also used in Grand Ams and Olds Aleros from 1998 to early 2002 production (when they phased in the Ecotec). In the U.S. they also came in Chev Malibus and Olds Cutlasses (I think), but judging my the fact you're using kms for reference, I'm guessing you're in Canada. Here in Canada, for several years that motor was used in all Cavalier Z24s, I believe Cavalier LS's, all Sunfire GTs, and was optional in many other Sunfires. Judging by the number of these things that were sold here over the years, I doubt that your search would be too difficult.

My other concern would be on the general condition of the rest of the car. At 300,000 - I doubt that the motor is the only thing showing wear by now. What's the condition of the body like? Around here (Niagara), many of those are looking rather tattered around the edges these days with nasty brown spots. All I'm saying is that I would want to make sure that the rest of the car is worth the expense of a potential motor swap before throwing more money at it. If the gas prices continue to drop for a while, then the resale on these cars will likely drop down again with them - which means that there are probably lots out there with significantly less mileage for a reasonable cost. If you really like your particular car - then ignore my ideas - I know what that's like too. Sometimes emotional attachment can be very costly though - as I learned with a couple of my first cars.
Keep up posted...
John

OK, well there seems to be many ideas on the engine. I GM shop would probably be the best place to drag the thing,so as to get a better diagnosis.
The car was the wifes 1st auto, the son has driven it (and wrecked it,hehe). There is a small spot of rust over the passenger front fender,so the car is gonna stay in the garage until its fixed.
As for 300Kkms, I'm sure there's room for more.I travel 260+ kms/day for work ,so these miles added up quickly.
I'm keeping the car and would like to fix it.
I'll get a better result from a dealership mechanic as to a potential problem and decide from there...

I appreciate everybody's help, and I'll keep you informed,
Thanks guys.

R


p.s. My 97 Golf CL just made 400K's today...wonder if I can put a VW engine in the Sunfire? Hmmm...