Well, here's the story. I'm trying to help my parents get their car going again and I need some help from someone to works at a GM garage. My parents have a '96 Grand Prix SE and everytime you go to turn a corner, the car dies. It seems as if the transmission is not downshifting and chokes itself off. I also noticed that the problem only seems to be happen when decelerating and the signal light is flashing. I believe the problem has to do with the multifunction turn signal switch.
I brought it to a garage and they couldn't figure out what was wrong. They hooked it to the computer and said that it kept giving some type of cruise control error. The left signal light doesn't work, and I'm guessing possibly when you turn the signal light, a short occurs and is screwing with the cruise control module (since the cruise is located on the turn level switch) causing the car to die. Any other ideas? I already replaced the sensor in the tranny that says what gear it is in. That didn't help.
So what I could use is either a diagnosis on what someone thinks it could be, or directions on how to remove the steering column in order to replace the multifunction switch. I got the steering wheel and airbag out, but there is a metal plate just before the multifunction switch that seems to be pressed on and I can't find a way to get it off.
Thanks in advance.
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
I work at a GM/Nissan shop.
For one thing, the turn signal being on/off, or broke has nothing to do with the car dying.
You say the car dies when you take a turn.
First thing I'd be checking is the oil level, yes the oil level.
On GM, the fuel pump relay is the wired in parelle with the oil pressure sending unit. If the pressure drops below 6psi, it will cut power to the fuel pump relay.
Well when you take a turn, the oil goes to one side, that combined with it being low could for a second cause it to drop below 6psi.
I have that seen problem quite a few times solved, by adding oil.
Start with that, let me know if you need more assisstance.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Oil level is good. I am almost positive it has something to do with the tranny not downshifting, you can feel when you slow down that it doesn't downshift. I also forgot to mention that the garage found that when it was hooked to the computer that it was always stuck in third or fourth gear when the problem occurred. And I doubt that the tranny is the problem, I am almost sure it is an electrical problem. When you drive it and it works, the tranny shifts just fine, so I dunno...
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
Can you disconnect the TCC solenoid on that car?.
If you can and the problem goes away you may just have a bad solenoid, keeping the car in a higher gear than it really wants to be and stalling the engine as the car slows for corners.
If not you only need to reconnect it to be back to square one.
As the pump is wired in parallel low oil level should not affect it as the other half of the parallel circuit,--the oil pump relay fed from the ECM/PCM, would keep the pump running. Loss of oil pressure should not stop the fuel pump.
Alont
Hmm..good question. I never looked at it. I will have to see if I can see anything else plugged into the tranny.
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
alont wrote:Can you disconnect the TCC solenoid on that car?.
If you can and the problem goes away you may just have a bad solenoid, keeping the car in a higher gear than it really wants to be and stalling the engine as the car slows for corners.
If not you only need to reconnect it to be back to square one.
As the pump is wired in parallel low oil level should not affect it as the other half of the parallel circuit,--the oil pump relay fed from the ECM/PCM, would keep the pump running. Loss of oil pressure should not stop the fuel pump.
Alont
I meant series.
GM uses it as a fail safe, lose oil pressure, lose power to the fuel pump relay. Power goes through the oil pressure switch first, than to the fuel pump relay.
my mistake there
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Not to be picky, Rob, but that's not how it works.
You were right the first time, it is a parallel circuit, this is how it works
1. Ignition ON ECM energises Fuel Pump Relay for 2 seconds (Fuel Pump Relay Contacts 87 to 30)
2. If engine is CRANKED or RUN ECM receives Ignition Reference Pulses and continues to energise Fuel Pump Relay until engine is switched OFF or Ignition Reference Pulses cease
3. Once Oil Pressure has built up to 2-4 PSI Oil warning light extinguishes as Oil Pressure switch contact A is disconnected from Ground.
4. Fuel Pump is also energised through now closed Oil Pressure Switch contacts C and D
Note a-- that 2 and 4 are parallel circuits to the fuel pump, therefore EITHER circuit could malfunction and the other would continue to energise the fuel pump.
Note b---Loss of Oil Pressure will NOT stop the engine, presumably until it seizes from lack of oil and the ignition reference pulses cease.
Note c---If the Fuel Pump RELAY circuit is faulty the engine should start if it is cranked long enough to build up the 2-4 PSI oil pressure and supply the fuel pump via the oil pressure switch contacts.
Note d---If the Oil Pressure Switch circuit is faulty the ECM should still energise the Fuel PumpRelay and operate the Fuel Pump
It took a while to realise this is how it works(It doesn't seem logical)
This is meant as a helpful post
Alont
I think it must be lack of gas (faulty pump probably, not completely bad) and you should be able to check it because you hear it working for a few seconds, as soon as you turn the ignition switch to on, while it raises the pressure. When the car dies try placing the ign. switch to the off and then to the on position see if you hear the pump, if it keeps running for more than some 5 seconds IŽll say it is bad and should be replaced also if you do not hear it. By the way since the gas pump is inside the gas tank and is cooled by the gas it is better to keep the tank above the 1/4 mark , I try to fill it up as soon as it gets under 1/2 mark to be on the safe side.
What Engine/Tranny is that? 3.1L with 4T60?
I don't think it has anything to do with the fuel pump, because it starts right up immediately after it dies. And like I said before, it feels as if it isn't downshifting. I can almost reproduce the problem everytime, speed up to about 50, and quickly slow down, and it dies.
Yeah, it's got the 3.1L I'm not exactly sure which tranny though..
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
How's it idle? Any chugging or irregularities?
Idles perfect. It would run all day if you just let it idle and don't drive it.
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
I would guess speed sensor, Some times when the sensor gets dirty, It causes the cars engine to choke & even stall without warning. I had the same problem with a neighour of mine on his 89 dodge shadow, No check engine light, When I used carb cleaner on the dirty speed sensor worked. No stalling, jolting in down shifting.
Good Luck.
Have you tried pulling the TCC solenoid yet? It won't hurt the car, it just won't lock the TC.
Anyone know if that engine had a MAF? Maybe the TPS is going, not down shifting and flooding the engine (yeah I know it's a stretch).
Not sure where the TCC is located. Some people I talked to said it is inside the tranny, others have said it is on the outside. I haven't seemed to locate it yet.
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
What happens if you Manualy downshift for it? as you come up to a light like your driving a stick and see what happins..?
Hold on, you said more info you didnt give in the begiining.
At 50 the TC is locked up, if that doesnt unlock the car will stall when coming to a stop.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
The TCC is the Torque Converter Clutch. It's just what it sounds like, a clutch in the torque converter. There's a relay in the engine fuse box area that controls the solenoid. That's what I meant before to pull, sorry about the confusion.
So if that is the problem, I would just have to replace the entire torque converter assemby, correct?
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
Luke Heier wrote:So if that is the problem, I would just have to replace the entire torque converter assemby, correct?
Depends, the computer may not be giving the TCC solenoid the signal to disengage.
Or the TCC solenoid itself may be getting the signal to disengage, but not being able to do it.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Well, now it has a new symptom. It dies whenever the hell it wants to. I was working on it and shut the hood while it was running, and when the hood slammed it turned off. It did this repeatedly, so I opened the hood, jumped on the front part of the frame where the hood latch is, and it immediately died. I looked around for loose wires and found a ground wire coming from the headlight harness that was nearly cut off. I replaced it, and now it runs just fine, knock on wood. Not sure if that was the actual problem, or if I wiggled some wires or something. But if that truly was the problem, why would a bad ground from the headlight wiring harness make the car turn off?!
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
Luke Heier wrote:Well, now it has a new symptom. It dies whenever the hell it wants to. I was working on it and shut the hood while it was running, and when the hood slammed it turned off. It did this repeatedly, so I opened the hood, jumped on the front part of the frame where the hood latch is, and it immediately died. I looked around for loose wires and found a ground wire coming from the headlight harness that was nearly cut off. I replaced it, and now it runs just fine, knock on wood. Not sure if that was the actual problem, or if I wiggled some wires or something. But if that truly was the problem, why would a bad ground from the headlight wiring harness make the car turn off?!
The ground for the headlights doesnt just ground the headlights. Think about it, a seperate ground wire for each circuit on the car, impossible.
It may share the ground for any of the computers, could be a lot of things.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
This is the other odd thing, I completely disconnected the ground and started the car, and it ran fine. Didn't seem to matter if it was hooked up or not.
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
