ok so heres the deal. i was replacin my exhaust and i accidently hit my metal brake line in back and broke it, so i replaced it and deicided why not put my SS lines in to replace all the rubber ones while im at it. so i did that and replaced the pads in front. Now at my Tech. school i had a kid from the mechanic shop come over and help me bleen them. Did exactly what the manual said to do. Start the car for 10 secs. shut it off, bleen the ABS box, and then start on the furtherest point. After checkin all them several times the brakes are still soft as hell. When the cars off it will build good prussure but once i start it the brakes will go almost to the floor and it seems they wont start to have pressure till about 1" or so from the stopper. What did we do wrong?

My guess you still got air in the system, Was youre brakes soft before you changed th front pads or went the brake line got broken?.

well the brakes were soft but not this soft. Tomorrow im goin to take the car for a ride around the school and see if maybe its my imagantion (sp?) I still think they should be harder then they are.

You should try bleeding them with a pressurized system. It works great . Its just something that goes ontop of your brake fluid container and pressures it with air from your tire. When thats all hooked up you just open up the bleeder screws (starting from furthest point again) and let the fluid drain untill there are absolutely no air bubbles at all. After you finish one brake check the fluid levels and do the next brake and continue from there.

That should work for you.

Did you remove the drums in the back? If so, the brake shoes will need to be adjusted. Drum brakes are adjusted by driving in reverse and stopping as fast as you can without tire squeal. Do this 3 - 4 times or until the pedal comes up.


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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

nope never removed the drums in back just the front pads. I never took it for a drive yet cuz i didn't wanna end up not havin brakes.

Ryan Shissler wrote:nope never removed the drums in back just the front pads. I never took it for a drive yet cuz i didn't wanna end up not havin brakes.

Then I'd suggest double checking your connections to make sure nothing is sucking in air and re-bleed.

After all this, did the exhaust come out good?



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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

lol o yea the exhaust is sweet. nice low, deep tone during idle and nice mild deep tone under accel. But yea we checked everything we could think of. Wouldn't it be if there was something lose it would also leak when i push the pedal? He went around the car about 5 times in 2 days and theres no air at all comin out of all of them.

Ryan Shissler wrote:lol o yea the exhaust is sweet. nice low, deep tone during idle and nice mild deep tone under accel. But yea we checked everything we could think of. Wouldn't it be if there was something lose it would also leak when i push the pedal? He went around the car about 5 times in 2 days and theres no air at all comin out of all of them.

Not necessarily... Brake fluid is thicker than air, so when you push down the pedal the brake cylenders expand, but when you release the pedal it sucks air through the leak. It may have dribbled a *tiny* bit but still capable of sucking a lot of air back in.

I just did the exhaust on my 97, pacesetter 4-1 into a 2.5 cat and a 28 inch glass pack with a side dump. I didn't think there was room for a 2.5 inch pipe over that brake line and didn't want to make a bracket to relocate the brake line so it turns out in front of the rear wheel. It's a little too loud so I'll be back under it soon putting on tail pipes.]

Even without modding, that's a stupid place for GM to mount a brake line.


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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

yea i know i had to place a 2 bolt flange over the axle becuase i couldn't for the life of me get the mig up there to weld or get the pipe to wiggle throught with dual exhaust so yea its a little tight but it works good. i got the pacesetter 4-1 header, magnaflow hi-flow cat, 24" glasspack, 2 1/4 piping, and 2 SR2 mufflers.

Well i guess when i get back to school monday ill check everything again and make sure its all tighen down good

If a good clean stream of brake fluid is coming out of the bleeders then I would say that the brake master cylinder is bypassing. But also a connection could not be tight or could be possibly crossthreaded. Ive had problems with brake calipers and lines on some equipment not seating correctly and barely leak any fluid and never get a stiff brake pedal. And sometimes that was caused by the threads being messed up and getting crossthreaded.

well i drove the car home today. i have brakes but not as much as i used to have. it stops but takes time and the padel is really soft. I think im goin to buy one of those pressure bleeders for one person and then take the lines off and wrap some of that tape on the the threads and start over again.

Well three things that cause spongy brakes:

1.) Still has air in the brake lines.

2.) Master cyl mounting harware are loose (Bolts).

3.) Master cyl is shot.

You mentioned that your car has ABS, those are notorious for air in them if any air at all is allowed in the system. Very difficult to bleed those as they have lots of little passages in them. A pressure bleeder helps a lot with those, and some even have bleed screws in them. Good luck.
Don

Why don't you try using a Mityvac pump? See - http://www.mityvac.com/

I bought mine for $20 and it comes with all the pipes and fittings. You slip a pipe over the bleeder valve, open the bleeder and pump a vacuum on the brake line. This sucks all the old fluid and air out. It's like a pressure bleeder working in reverse. You have someone up front topping up the brakefluid reservoir while you pump until clear fluid come out at the bleeder.

There is a book that comes with it with full instructions on how to bleed ABS brakes.

Might need to replace all the brake fluid. If water gets in it mixes /w the brake fluid and causes a soft petal as the water can be compresses, especially if it turns to steam in the lines. bleed a resevoir of fluid through and see if it's still soft.

Did you make sure your caliper pins were not seized when you changed your front pads . This will cause a soft brake pedal because your caliper is no longer floating.

replaced the pins along with the pads cz they were seized before.

My guess still is youre system still has air in it, Cause this reply i info I would like to add, one of our forklifts at work, Had the same problem, spongy brake almost like the filtstone style of breaks, All the mechanic guy do is bleed the system really well, Pow normal braking pressure, Like other guys have qouted in other posts, You could be better off just buying one of those hand pump gauges, They work exremely well, You will get definite reading answer from all the air removed out of youre system. Just a tip for you, Did you start bleeding the brakes from drivers side work youre way around?

pass. side cuz its the furtherest point away from the master.