I think my stock one is rated at 195. Too hot for my liking so I was going to change it to a 180. Does this hurt anything on these cars?


1995 Cavalier 2.2 Liter Auto With 64k Miles

It isnt going to run at 180F, will still operate at the same 195F, just the t-stat will open sooner.

What do you mean it isnt for your liking. The engineers at GM know what they are doing when they design their cars, unlike someone like you who has no clue.






- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

Rob S wrote:It isnt going to run at 180F, will still operate at the same 195F, just the t-stat will open sooner.

What do you mean it isnt for your liking. The engineers at GM know what they are doing when they design their cars, unlike someone like you who has no clue.

What a Loon! You have to be kidding me. Do you think GM does and makes everything perfect? Not hardly! Just about every car they have put out has some issues that were overlooked or not the best. They use 195 for emissions and economy, not to help lengthen the life of the engine or associated parts. Keep taking yours to the GM dealer and bend over. I will do my own work and fix their oversights and save my cash.


1995 Cavalier 2.2 Liter Auto With 64k Miles

Dude your a @!#$ moron. I'm about to get a job as a Nissan tech. I know 100X more than you ever will about cars.

What do you think GM does when they select the temp. of t-stat, reach into a bucket and randomly grab on, I think not.

Go ahead install a cooler one, @!#$ man go to 160F, screw up your car so I can laugh when its broke down on the side of the road.




- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

You are both tools for getting this fired up over a posting on the Internet!

Anyways from what everyone has posted in previous threads, lowering your thermostat temp down to 180 probably won't help you much. There is a chance it will end up causing minor issues. Who knows? I don't. The big theory is that the computer has all kinds of ranges that it expects each sensor to read within. If that sensor reads outside of the a pre-defined range, it may cause other oddities. Know what I mean?

I am in Northern CA were temps avg 100 throughout the summer, I switched mine over to a 180 for the summer months this year in an attempt to keep it from overheating. I have not noticed any adverse effects as of yet. I can tell you if i am sitting and not moving the water temp will avg 195 - 200 deg with no airflow where before it would avg 200-215 (approx) before. When the car is moving it does drop back down to about 180 and stays in that general area. I do plan on switching back during winter months just to keep temps up for the heater. I do know several other people with various cars that do the same thing around here because of the heat and i dont remember anyone mentioning any issues. Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps

Wow, lots of hostility on this thread...

I switched to a 180 thermostat on my 2.4. It did have a 195 and the only change I've seen is the needle stays at 180 most of the time.

From reading about HPTuners, there are things that the computer will adjust according to coolant temp as well as other factors. Running cooler will keep you in a different set of parameters, but this on it's own won't leave you "broke down on the side of the road".

I'm an old-school hot rodder, and I can tell you that running at 195 instead of 180 will give you more performance and better economy from having a higher combustion chamber temp, which is probably why GM decided to use it.

Lighten up people, geeeeeze!


John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Not sure about earlier models, but according to the factory service manual, the 04 models use a 180 degree stat, not 195.

That's what I was looking for. I do have a clue was what got me but the responses that followed answered my questions. From my 1997 S-10 to my 1987 Grand National and all the other cars I have owned I went with a 160 thermostat. It kind of sucked in the Winter but in the Summer months everything worked better... oil stayed nice, never a problem. Changing a thermostat won't put you on the side of the road ever. I don't know alot about the speed density setup so that was my only concern. Reading this it seems a small switch is just what the doctor ordered. I probably should have went with 180's in my other cars but they didn't even make one for the GN. That would give you enough heat in the Winter but keep you out of the high end temps.






1995 Cavalier 2.2 Liter Auto With 64k Miles

I have to agree w. Jesse and say the car will run at 180. How do you expect a car to run at 195 when the coolant is circulating the engine block, radiator and hoses and such at 180? Rob, do you even know what a thermostat does? It allows the coolant in the engine to circulate and not enter the radiator until it opens (at 180 in this case) in which the coolant will get cooler while air flows through the radiator.

Rob, I would love to see how you expect the car to operate at 195 w. a 180 thermostat in. Please explain!

Sam


Ban low-performance cars, not high-performance ones.

Every car ECU is programmed to run at a certain temperature, all of its fuel/timing maps are based off of that temperature. If you change it, your performance/economy will both hurt. And on a 2.4, if you put a 160 in that you are deffinatly not smart. The last thing I want on a 2.4 is cold and sludgy oil, I mean, we all know the 2.4 has oiling issues of its own already, I'll stick with my 190 thermo.

Fst Cavy wrote:Every car ECU is programmed to run at a certain temperature, all of its fuel/timing maps are based off of that temperature. If you change it, your performance/economy will both hurt. And on a 2.4, if you put a 160 in that you are deffinatly not smart. The last thing I want on a 2.4 is cold and sludgy oil, I mean, we all know the 2.4 has oiling issues of its own already, I'll stick with my 190 thermo.

The ECU is programmed to adjust fuel/timing maps based on coolant temp, air temp and other factors. There's not just "one ideal setup" for all temps.

In other words, when you first start the car in the winter, the coolant temp would be 30 degrees and the ecu sets the timing/fuel according to that. But in the summer when you're sitting in traffic, the coolant may be at 200 degrees and there's different fuel/timing for that. There's a grid for all the different temps, and they're affected by throttle pos, rpm, speed, air temp, map, etc, etc. It's a sliding scale based on all current conditions.

Simply put, if your car only had one set of parameters, it wouldn't run right under any other circumstances, like starting on a cold engine or driving until it'd fully warmed up.

Read through the "tuning" section here, or check out HP Tuners product screen shots to see exactly what I'm talking about.



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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Your right. I never had problems with sludge either and all the cars set on the thermostat at 160 unless in the Summer when running A/C where they would drift 20 degrees or so in traffic. The oil always looked perfect and I had the pan and valve covers off my GN several times and not a spec. Even on a tear-down it all looked great. I used Kendall 20/50 in the race car and Mobil 1 Synthetic in the others and they all looked great.


1995 Cavalier 2.2 Liter Auto With 64k Miles

John I know exactly what you are talking about here, but it is plain and simple, the vehicle will run at its peak perfeormance AND economy at 195 degrees, why would you want to change that? Just like a human, would a human perform better outside during a game of baseball when it is 45 degrees out or 65-70 degrees out? Jesse, I wasnt talking about your GN or any other vehicle you own, I was talking SOLELY about the 2.4, it has some serious oil issues, so I will use my better judgement and let it heat up.

Doesn't surprise me. What are the oiling problems? Low PSI, sludge? GM doesn't always have the answers in the beginning.... That 97 S-10 I had is known for carbon fouling the EGR Pintle causing a SES light. The answer was an aftermarket gasket made by Tomco with a screen in it to bust the carbon up. Too bad GM didn't do it from jump or correct it!

If you are looking for most efficiency, etc... then the factory piece probably is best. Since I am not looking for max MPG and know it will still pass smog fine then I like the cooler temps for my oil and everything else.

I always think back about that Castrol commercial and higher revving engines breaking down oil. I know mine looks better on oil changes with the lower temp.


1995 Cavalier 2.2 Liter Auto With 64k Miles

Fst Cavy wrote:John I know exactly what you are talking about here, but it is plain and simple, the vehicle will run at its peak perfeormance AND economy at 195 degrees, why would you want to change that?

I changed mine because it would get too hot idling in traffic, almost to the red. So a cooler thermostat will buy me some time before it turns into an embarassing steam cloud. I'd gladly sacrifice a little performance for longevity. There's an old saying "In order to finish first, first you have to finish".

My car has other issues and until I can convince the wife that I need to pop $500 for the HPTuners software, I have to keep it together. But that's another thread altogether.


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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

John Wilken wrote:

Fst Cavy wrote:No matter how hot she is, there's some guy somewhere who is sick to death of putting up with her crap

.

So true!!!!! I find myself saying this often


1995 Cavalier 2.2 Liter Auto With 64k Miles