Harvey Birdman]I currently drive a 97 Mustang GT, but I'm selling it and buying a cheaper car and using the money for my tuition.

Having said that, I looked at a 96 Pontiac Sunfire GT today that seemed pretty straight. The guy selling it seemed honest and said the car's been in his family since '98. He stated that his father is a mechanic at a local shop, and the car has been serviced there and has records since '98.

Here are some stats about the car taken from his add and the test drive:

1996 Pontiac Sunfire GT 2.4 LTR 5 Speed (Manual)
$1,650.00 is asking price, possible $1,550

Purple
119K

30K on tranny, put in at 100K. New plugs, wires and coils at tranny swap.
Brand New Clutch at tranny swap

Has a few minor dents and some scratches/blemishes. 6 inch key mark with a little rust. Some clear coat gone off paint.

Newer Tires on front(10-15k), might need back tires soon.
Wipers (as of 5/22/2007)
New Brake Pads and Rotors (less than 1K)
Tint on sides and strip on top of front windshield. No tint on back glass.

Subwoofer box W/ 2 Bazooka Subs, Bazooka Amp mounted to back seat. Sony Xplodes in the doors, Alpine CD player (detachable, 3 angle face).
Front seats and carpet on driver side a little worn, lower plastic piece on side of drivers seat is broke off.

Heat and Air work(although A/C needs a new compressor which he has, but it's not installed. Comes with car and "might" be able to work a deal to have his dad do it for cheap.
Cruise control works
no horn
check engine light is on.
Seemed to drive a little rough suspension wise. He stated it was probably due to the low profile tires. It feels similar to my Mustang on bumps, but I wasn't sure if this was normal for Sunfire GTs.
It also whines while going in reverse. (I've only owned one standard before, and it was a POS so I wasn't sure if this is normal.



OK... so if you took the time to actually read all of that, is there anything I should be wary of?

Are there any known problem with this car model/year that I should be made aware of?

I'll be using the car for school and I can't afford any major repairs. That's why this is so detailed. I literally can't afford a mistake here.

I appreciate any feedback or responses! Thanks so much!
-Harvey-

As far as known problems. The 2.4 engine has a crappy oil system, and the coil housing likes to crack when it gets old. Other than that, there pretty good cars. Just keep plenty of oil in it and it "should" be fine. Plus that car should feel as fast as your mustang did stock. I'f it doesn't even feel close, there's something wrong. I Own a sunfire with a 2.4, and have drivin lots of mustang gt's, and they should both pin you to the seat about the same. If it doesn't even seem comparable, don't buy the car. Thats a good price though.

I purchase my Mustang GT with aftermarket exaust, air intake, 3.73 gear ratio and such. While my mustang is notably faster than a stock mustang and the Sunfire, the Sunfire is still a pretty fast little car so I don't think that's a problem.

If he says his dad is a mechanic, and the check engine light is on, I wouldn't buy it. Most people make a reasonable effort to make their car more appealing to sell, and a check engine light doesn't inspire confidence in a buyer. It could be something pretty spendy if he can't get his dad to fix it and has to sell it instead.

go get the codes scanned. You need to know what that issue is before you buy it. Could turn out pretty costly.


'02 LS Sport - Indigo Blue - Gone as of 9/15/06....

'06 VW GTI - Black Magic - the new toy with big things to come...

'91 VW GTI - Tornado Red - VR6 swapped in - daily toy

I'm taking it to my local mechanic on monday to have it checked out. I would think they could scan it among the other things to have them check on?

Don't Do It Please.... Worst year to buy sunfire. I own one and it has been problem after problem. First it started with the stereo/clock light, then the dimmer light went, then the temperature control switch, Signal relay, G102, and G101 engine grounds came loose, Rad went, alternator went, had to replace belt as well, front suspension is gone, i just need some cash to replace it, oh and these year cavi and sunfires are notorious for mufflers, Headlight relay had to be switched, horn is gone Overall, just to let you know that i am not ragging on my car from my experiences. Look up the vehicle recalls for this year sunfire, you will be surprised as to how big the list is.

But in my opinion, if you know how to do most of your own work, the repairs will not be too expensive, just parts!!!. The only reason i have kept this car around is because i need something right now that i can get me around and the local scrap yard has many sunfires that i can get cheap parts from.. In my opinion keep your mustang or get a honda

My 2.4 powered Sunfire is a 97, and the only problem (besides this hesitation I can't fiqure out yet), is that the synchros in my tranny seem to keep going out for some reason, other than that, it's been a good car.

I have a '97 Sunfire Gt. Its been my best car. I find I tend to have alotta repairs, also cause of the way I drive... I'm a 23 year old redneck. I have custom exhaust so I'm not to familiar with any exhaust problems. My exhaust ripped off just after the manifold once due to the 4" tip on my muffler, to much air flow. A simple welding job. Sunfired have a good weight to power ratio. HP doesnt matter to much, if you have the right transmission and a light weight car, you can smoke some trucks even. I havent done to much after market affects to this car (yet, call me crazy, it isnt going to stop me). The GT stock is a 2.4L fuel injected DOHC rated at 150HP, compared to the 2.2L (for the stock Sunfire) rated at 140 HP. There is even a Pontiac Racing Sunfire using the stock 2.2L engine, rated at 1000HP. Aparantely anything is possible. If you want power, stage 3 turbo kits are between $2500-$3500 (American dolars I beleive). Using the right tires for the terran, I'm still looking for a car that handles more easily and better. I've drove up north, in the bush, over a foot of snow, through the mud, whatever your driving allows you to do within reason. I came out a blind corner and had about 2 feet to turn and made the corner in 8" of snow with mud and snow tired on (not studded). Built for drivers, I still question that myself, regardless, with my custom exhaust, I'm around 160Hp within a couple HP. I've smoked Civics consistanely off the line with my 5 speed, also most stock trucks. This car really should put you into your seat. I have friends that dont like Sunfires so we renamed my car cause they like this one. The rad you have to watch but if you take care of your fluid levels, there shouldnt be to much problems. If it starts to overheat... park it for a bit and get your hoses checked. Its probably a clamp that came lose. I've heard of some computer glitches the car has and sometimes something comes up but replacing a fuse of jiggling a wire isnt hard. The (something) switch for your headlights, I find goes quicker then a Cavalier but I also do alotta highway driving. Its a $400 peice though. The piston rods are a different design then the caviliers, a little more solid (stiff) but its neither good nor bad. It may create a clunking noise very lightly as the pistons reach the top of the cylander. If its loud enough to hear over music, you should hesitate. If it doesnt start by the 4th turn, again, hesitate. They usually start just after 3 turns. If you properly maintain the car, which I know sometimes can be hard because life is unpredictable, you should get around 240-260K outta the engine. I just blew a piston rod from doing a smoke show and leaving a 28 foot rubber patch. I'm kicking just under 230K. Be sure to use 5w30 and the engine doesnt complain. Just take it to a reliable shop to get oil changes. Makes a power difference even. Went to the Great Canadian Oil Change and they didnt lube the seal on the oil filter and I seemed to have around 5-10% less power. Mr. Lube does it right for me. Every 100K if you get an engine clean, removing deposits, it makes a huge difference. These cars are cheap for parts but plan to always be doing something every month. Easier on the pocket book and preventative maintainance is 5x cheaper. If you must you can get about 6500km outta an oil change but then it starts bogging down. The fuel needle is accurate, if you at the bottom of the red, you really are. 682km on one tank of gas. I know its hard on the fuel pump, but I ran it dry once to se how far she really would go (of course, with a 10L jerry can in the back). REALLY cheap on gas. If you feel a pull in your steering when you arent accelarating, you should get it looked at, suspension, wheel joints, axle. Could cause majour problems and once a Sunfire is done in, get a new one. Like Bic lighters, they are disposable. Need a new engine, goto the junk yard and find a rear-ender. Lots of sunfires out there. Keep them purring and you never find yourself at the side of the road. I've never had an oil leak and once I thought I had transmission problems. I went off-roading, it was mud buildup (some spots 8' of mud, haha. I could go on, but if you want to hear more, email me john_k15@yahoo.com subject line sunfire (or something, but not cars). Oh yeah, fyi, I am an amature Rally racer (navigator, its not my car we use, '86 Corolla RWD). Thanks for your time. Hope its helpful.

Quote:

The GT stock is a 2.4L fuel injected DOHC rated at 150HP, compared to the 2.2L (for the stock Sunfire) rated at 140 HP.

Try 115-120 HP.

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I have custom exhaust so I'm not to familiar with any exhaust problems. My exhaust ripped off just after the manifold once due to the 4" tip on my muffler, to much air flow.

Did you break any axles due to oversized stickers?

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The piston rods are a different design then the caviliers, a little more solid (stiff) but its neither good nor bad. It may create a clunking noise very lightly as the pistons reach the top of the cylander.

Quote:


Be sure to use 5w30 and the engine doesnt complain. Just take it to a reliable shop to get oil changes. Makes a power difference even. Went to the Great Canadian Oil Change and they didnt lube the seal on the oil filter and I seemed to have around 5-10% less power.

Sorry, this post was a one-stop a$$clownery exhibit which shows exactly why other car forums don't respect the org. It's because people who have no idea about anything would
rather BS everyone else, than actually shut up and learn something. I bet this kid copied and pasted your clownish post over at stangnet and they're all laughing at you now.

Harvey, unless you're really good with cars, terminology and such, and can separate the a$$clowns around here from the knowledgeable people, you should look at another car forum, and possibly another car.

2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd

A Mazda 323 has almost that in HP (108hp). If you are blowing 115-120, then I would like to see those stats. I mean I have been wrong before but I'm not even sure if you own a Sunfire or even touched one before. I have had axle problems but if you dont let the clutch out at 6000rpm like some sorta a$$hole, then you should be doing just fine. The axle never broke, but the front and rear end have been rebuilt and the u-joints replaced too. The older Cavaliers, like from '88 are less powerful but around '94/95, they revamped the engine and icreased the horsepower by around 20% from the new technology they used. Cavailiers have less power than a Sunfire by usually 5 hp or so and they still have more HP than your quote.

Heres some copy and paste for you as well,
Pontiac launched the 1995 Sunfire with just one engine: the carryover 120-hp 2.2-liter 4-cylinder. And, at that time, only the old-style 3-speed automatic transmission was optional. Because our questionnaires went out mostly to early buyers, the majority of our respondents owned cars with the 2.2-liter Four and the 3-speed automatic, which is the standard package in the convertible. But all Sunfires can also now be powered by the 150-hp 2.4-liter Twin Cam 4-cylinder (successor to last year’s 2.3-liter Quad 4).

The Twin Cam is standard in the 1996 GT and optional in the SE series. An electronically controlled 4-speed automatic can be ordered in place of the standard 5-speed manual and the convertible’s 3-speed. The 3-speed is still available in all but the GT

doesn't the 2.4 eat head gaskets and water pumps? not to mention warped heads?


http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/my2005cav/my%20car%20the%20bash.jpg

John Kristoffersen wrote:A Mazda 323 has almost that in HP (108hp). If you are blowing 115-120, then I would like to see those stats. I mean I have been wrong before but I'm not even sure if you own a Sunfire or even touched one before. I have had axle problems but if you dont let the clutch out at 6000rpm like some sorta a$$hole, then you should be doing just fine. The axle never broke, but the front and rear end have been rebuilt and the u-joints replaced too. The older Cavaliers, like from '88 are less powerful but around '94/95, they revamped the engine and icreased the horsepower by around 20% from the new technology they used. Cavailiers have less power than a Sunfire by usually 5 hp or so and they still have more HP than your quote.

Alright, I'm going to type this out once for you, just to clear it up.

1. Cavaliers and sunfires, from 1995 to 2005 are exactly the same. The cavalier doesn't have any more hp or less than the sunfire, provided the same engine/transmission combo. The only difference between the two is some sheet metal, you can easily turn a cavalier into a sunfire or vice versa with a couple wrenches and a little work.

2. The 2.2 OHV engine has 115 hp from 1995 to 1997. In 1998 they changed to the 2200 OHV and increased hp from 115 to 120. These are CRANK RATED hp. At the wheels, with drivetrain loss, most 2.2's get less than 100 hp to the wheels. The 2.2 that started in 2002 is a DOHC engine rated at 140hp/145ft-lbs of torque (er 150ft-lbs, I forget). Either way, the sunfire's engine internals are EXACTLY THE SAME as the cavaliers.

3. Increased airflow isn't going to blow your exhaust off of your manifold.

4. Lubing the seal on your oil filter doesn't decrease hp. Did they sell you some blinker fluid and muffler bearings too?

5. You need to pick up on some of the stuff we do here before you go blabbing like that again. You sound EXTREMELY stupid when you say those things. Some of us here have been researching and building these vehicles for at least 6 years, some longer, and we know what we are talking about. Read up a little bit and try to research what you talk about a little before typing.





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THEREAL2005Z24 wrote:doesn't the 2.4 eat head gaskets and water pumps? not to mention warped heads?

No. Water pumps are a problem in a couple years, but its not an epidemic like people make it out to be. The 2.2 eats head gaskets in the early years (95-96). Warped heads are not a design problem, but idiots overheating their motors warp heads. I've never seen somebody warp a head that took care of their car.





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RUST, look at the bottom of the doors, rocker panel, and the little part right behind the door on the bottom, these spots seem to be really troublism in most of the years.

I'm not saying I know anything. In 1995, they started out with the one engine (which is also the engine that had the water pump issue) and they also had another engine available at the time, the DOHC (available in 96).

The biggest difference between the Sunfire and Cavalivere is the transmission and there is almost 100kg differeence between my aunts Cavalier and my Sunfire. This is cause hers is the regular Cav and I've got the GT Sunfire. You gotta remember that every year that either car came out there was about 5 different ways to take the car, between the two engines and transmissions and other features. There has been 3 different engines for the Sunfire until the new ECOTEC engine came out. In '96, the engine changed, truly changing the Sunfire into the know POS that it is. Thats why we all dog it, we all know the parts are cheap, it doesnt even cost as much as my old mazda to fix. In '96 they completely re-vamped the Sunfire and that is when they changed to DOHC with the 2.2L and 2.4L that pushes 140HP with 145pft and 150hp with 155pft. In 2002, they released the ECOTEC engines. I beleive they did another upgrade in 2007. The Cavalier closely resembles the Sunfire, maybe its the price or the chance that the sunfire didnt run a 2.3L version of the car prior. This engine was still good, but any engine you look at from 1992, runs about 115-120HP. The Neons as well use these types of engines. They are cheap, as we are. You get what you pay for, the less you pay, the more TLC its gonna need, either before or after. You run it hard, you pay. Its a fun drive through the town but we all never expect to see it on a race-course. To think someone made a 1000HP sunfire and currently race it.
To sum it up, your engine stats are correct but release dates dont match specified engines. '95 OHC, 96 DOHC, 02 ECOTEC. The 2008 has the same horsepower as a 1998. They are quieter and slightly better on gas, depnding on who you talk to.

When the engine heats, its made of metal, metal expands. The actual fuse of the part happens how? No lube, heating of the metal, its expands into the new area and the particals start to bond. When its lubed, the heat transfers more smoothly. For all I know, they used 10w30. From the moment the touched the car until about 2000km after my next one, the car seemed bogged down. If you are dumb enough to stick a fuel and oil filter on. not lubbing both, who says you even stuck it on straight. It seems dummy proof but who knows what idiot they had working on it that day. When the lube isnt applied, like the heat not disipating as easily, the part heats up moreso than normal, metal hencetherefor expanding. Is there not a chance that this would restrict flow especially if there was deposits building up through the lines. When hotter, these deposits would also move more freely. Think about it, an engine cleansing put me back up into that pick-me-up feeling. The tune-up the next week was extremely good for the car too.

Have we all forgotten our preventative maintanance schedule? These are the people most hating of the Sunfire.

The increased airflow doesnt tear off the exhaust from the manifold, but when you change from a dual exhaust to a single, there is differences and also the increased airflow to one side by having the capacity to move more air than the dual exhaust, with a more torqued out muffler, you downshift into second and the car is heard for 2 blocks. Also setting off car alarms. This increased torque and increased airflow, expelling from the engine, has some velocity, coming through the manifold then into the straight pipe and to the muffler. I dont have a straight pipe or a flexpipe. Most people with the muffler I have, have installed a flexpipe so this doesnt happen. About 5" after the manifold towards the muffler, there was a tear in the pipe. The mechanic had to take the exhaust pipe, pull it together and weld it shut. The other mechanic I saw wanted to replace the manifold. Tell me if that isnt from changing the exhaust and having that extra torque.

From '97 there may still be issues with your head gasget seal. Unless you try and warp your heads, you should be fine but I also had a friend with a '98 Sunfire have his heads eaten. I wasnt there so I dont know how he was driving.

And from not lubing your filters right, its probably 5-10 degrees ferenheit hotter. If you have cooked r done any science, you know this still makes a difference. If you are a mechanic, you know going ot a bad shop doesnt help your performance.

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In '96 they completely re-vamped the Sunfire and that is when they changed to DOHC with the 2.2L and 2.4L that pushes 140HP with 145pft and 150hp with 155pft. In 2002, they released the ECOTEC engines. I beleive they did another upgrade in 2007. The Cavalier closely resembles the Sunfire, maybe its the price or the chance that the sunfire didnt run a 2.3L version of the car prior.

WRONG. In 96 they still had the same 2.2L OHV engine that the 95 (and prior) years had. They changed that engine to the 2200 in 98 which was STILL AN OHV. HP was 115 in the 95-97 and 120 in 98-02.

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In 2002, they released the ECOTEC engines. I beleive they did another upgrade in 2007.

Pretty hard to do when they stopped making the cars in 2005.

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To sum it up, your engine stats are correct but release dates dont match specified engines. '95 OHC, 96 DOHC, 02 ECOTEC. The 2008 has the same horsepower as a 1998. They are quieter and slightly better on gas, depnding on who you talk to.

Again, they stopped making the car in 2005, and the 2.2 was NEVER A DOHC BEFORE 2002.

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If you are dumb enough to stick a fuel and oil filter on. not lubbing both, who says you even stuck it on straight.

LOL, I've heard of lubing an oil filter, but a fuel filter? The fuel filters are snap on! And not like the tool, lol.

The ONLY reason you lube the rubber gasket is to keep it from dry rotting.

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The increased airflow doesnt tear off the exhaust from the manifold, but when you change from a dual exhaust to a single, there is differences and also the increased airflow to one side by having the capacity to move more air than the dual exhaust, with a more torqued out muffler, you downshift into second and the car is heard for 2 blocks. Also setting off car alarms. This increased torque and increased airflow, expelling from the engine, has some velocity, coming through the manifold then into the straight pipe and to the muffler. I dont have a straight pipe or a flexpipe. Most people with the muffler I have, have installed a flexpipe so this doesnt happen. About 5" after the manifold towards the muffler, there was a tear in the pipe. The mechanic had to take the exhaust pipe, pull it together and weld it shut. The other mechanic I saw wanted to replace the manifold. Tell me if that isnt from changing the exhaust and having that extra torque.

I don't even know where to start with all that bull@!#$. Thats funny.

Don't worry, I'll see if I can get Brian in here to help you out, he's a GM mechanic.





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Shifted why are you even bothering to argue with that clown? You know he'll just reject reality and substitute his own.

I'm bored.





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ehh, he was born one day before me, now i'm sad...




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this thread makes me LOL

If you look for the 2.4L engines from '96-'02. I didnt say your were wrong but you might want to admit we might both be right.

If I buy new, I'm getting a Mitsubishi. I double checked the 2008 Sunfire I saw for sale, and it was really a G5. Sorry I didnt double check this. Although the sales man was embarrassed, he ran the add in the local paper.

The GT version of the Sunfire has dual exhaust. Putting on the 4" tipped muffler, increases the horse power and torque, correct? Now, channel this through one side with more air access, how much velocity do you have on the exhaust pipe? There is increased air flow, and with extra torque created. Does it not create different pressure levels in the pipes, especially at hi RPMs, which I also mentioned as the cause of this during a previous post. When you apply extra gas, the engine kicks up RPMs and also moves physically but the pressure changes in the cylanders and also in the exhaust.
After the manifold, you have your exhaust pipe which on my '97 GT comes out an inch and turns down for 3-4" and than levels out to the bottom of the car and goes to the muffler. The cadalic converter has not been removed. 1-1.5" after the turn in the pipe, there was tear marks, jagged edges in the pipe. The pipe completely torn off. Down-shifting from 3rd to 2nd at 80km/h coming down hill is when this happened. I was not the driving or even in the car at the time but this may also be due to my previous driving as well as wear and tear. Whats the bull here? The exhaust pipe shouldnt break? All 3 mechanics I took the car to congraduated me on being capable of doing such a thing since they couldnt even figure out how it happened. One speculated it could be the torquing pressure on the pipe. Asking two mechanics from my home town, one of them assured me this is correct. He also asked me if I installed a flex pipe.

Call me a clown cause I ask a question instead of rambling. Nice. Why not answer the question or ignore me. I am not a mechanic although I do all my own work, and I specialize in electrical, where-ever, how-ever. I would apologize for being a clown but you guys seem to not acknowledge that the GT version of the car since 96 has had the DOHC while the lesser 2.2L engine was different technology. Thank-you Shifted for at least being polite for once, its a forum. Like a debate, you must respect people and maybe get them to check their sources. I'm sure if you were right, they would appreciate knowing the facts.

Stick a stoner in a room and spin him around, the stoner wont find his way out the door even if he knows how to open a door.
Maybe you'all should smoke one and relax, find a sense of humor... since what I write is so funny anyways.