I guess this is more of a poll than anything....
Ive been around here for a while however the past year or so tuning has taken a back seat to other priorities in life such as family, career, etc.
Every now and then I jump on here when I have a spare moment, not posting much mainly to check out the NE forums and browse the other forums.
After reading a few posts and Its funny how often you see the same questions being asked that were answered five years ago (literally). You know Which intake is best? or will these ebay springs work on my car?ETC the list goes on.
So Then the question came up......So What now for J-bodies? Has anybody done anything new and innovating and original.
Has anyone topped the Johnnie Mack Turbo?
Has anyone out there come up with a NA 4cyl second Gen that could do what Scruf's Doomie or did in it's prime?
Has anyone dominated the car show circuit like Bob Mull?
Opened new horizons and doors for the J like Teske?
I know these four arent the end all to JBO I just wanted to use those becasue they were the most recognizable in my opinion.
Threre are other names that come to mind to name a few:
Curtis Walker,Cookie Monster, Blue, Lenko, WW,Karo, Robo,Event,etc, etc
But again has anyone done or in the progress of doing anything legitimately NEW and creative for the J-body. Or did everything die with the birth of the delta platform.? Just wanted to pose this for conversation sake.
Say it with me, "Its not what you know...It's what you can prove"
so this thread is going to go to directions.... the people who realize they're driving an economy car and get over it... and the people who will forever (or at least till they buy a better car) claim the J is a high quality piece of american made metal. no matter what side anybody takes... i see this thread possibly ending badly.
There is definately more new and exciting things still in our cars. Unfortunately as some of us "grow up", we get out of the sport. Take me for example, I had planned on building a 25 psi 12 second beast, but I'm currently looking into getting rid of the cav and getting out of the sport for a while. This is going to happen to a lot of the more recognizable names in the next year or two.
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I started to see what kinds of things I could swap into the J... to make it less and less like a J
Like the N-body IRS... now the N-body front brake swap will come eventually...
I blew up the motor... so... time for an engine swap... nothing new tho
it's been done before...
Performance is where I think you'll see the next "big thing"...HPT has come on board and helped out the tuning of our cars like many other cars have had for years.
I think the actual performance of the Eco platform has yet to be tapped but I guess time will tell....
Eh...old man with a Corvette now...it was bound to happen sooner rather than later right?
it'll be interesting IMO. with the second gen Eco motors coming and HP Tuners here, I think there's a lot left to do on the J-body platform. then, if you consider guys like Raven who are pioneering big motor swaps, and the awesome Eco motors coming out for the Kappa platform, who knows what someone on here might do.
on the same token though... I think aftermarket support for brakes, suspensions and ground effects packages are slowly going to fade into nothingness. since the J-body isn't produced anymore, it's better for companies that produce those type of products to move on to newer vehicles.
one thing the J-body will always have is sheer numbers. there's so many on the road that I think the J-body "scene" will keep going for a few more years at least.
I could be wrong though...
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yea, Lenko did the IRS swap
and Josh F did the twin charging with the GM supercharger
and projectors are really starting to gain steam as more and more cars get real quality ones (thanks to izn)
but other than that and HP tuners, i see nothing ground breakingly new
the first two i mentioned will prolly be the only ones or maybe be only ones of a very select few to do those
i dont see a mull coming anytime soon
people are gonna start moving on from a dead platform
altho that blu.2.carbon guy or whatever his name is is doing a two tone with his top half being carbon fiber laid onto his car and may be making a carbon fiber roof cover
themarin8r wrote:altho that blu.2.carbon guy or whatever his name is is doing a two tone with his top half being carbon fiber laid onto his car and may be making a carbon fiber roof cover
yep, thats who i was going to mention for someone doing something new.
Shifted wrote:There is definately more new and exciting things still in our cars. Unfortunately as some of us "grow up", we get out of the sport. Take me for example, I had planned on building a 25 psi 12 second beast, but I'm currently looking into getting rid of the cav and getting out of the sport for a while. This is going to happen to a lot of the more recognizable names in the next year or two.
Cool... I feel honoured to be on that short list of "recognizable names" in the j-body world.
To address this point by Shifted... I'm in this boat as well but taking it in a different direction.
By the nature of the platform, the j-body is for many if not most people a starter car or originally just basic transportation. As we get older and priorities change, they'll tend to either take a back seat to other things or be let go in lieu of something better.
When I started in this scene, I was single and just starting my career. It was my first new car and as I learned more and more about it, I wanted to make it better and better. And I did.
Now, a few years later, I'm married and about to move into my first house. Over the past few years my priorities have changed to saving for a house and a future with my wife so the improvement of the car has gone slower and slower. It's never stopped, but it certainly isn't on the same pace as it once was.
With that in mind, I reached a point where I had to decide whether it was worth it to continue or whether I should sell it or trade it in for something more practical and grown up.
I think I've made the right decision in keeping it.
This is the point in life that you hear people talking about who are much older and regret having given up their first great rides. Sure, those people gave up muscle cars or classic convertibles or hot rods but it's really no different than those letting their sport compacts go today. Years from now, I don't want to see sport compacts from our era in shows and think about how I should never have got rid of mine.
I don't ever expect to see a j-body pulling in 6-figures in the 2050 Barrett Jackson auction... but I do imagine the time will come when all but a very small number have gone back to the earth and it becomes unique and unusual to see one on the streets in good condition. People like us will see them and remember these days when we knew the cars inside and out, good and bad, and loved them regardless of their faults. These cars are our toys and tied to our youth. One day they'll be symbols of nostalgia and when that day somes, I look forward to being able to go into the garage and pull the cover off and take it for a ride.
Adam (StealthCavalier) wrote:so this thread is going to go to directions.... the people who realize they're driving an economy car and get over it... and the people who will forever (or at least till they buy a better car) claim the J is a high quality piece of american made metal. no matter what side anybody takes... i see this thread possibly ending badly.
Nah brother , I dont see why. Its not about taking sides at all. Its simply asking is there anything else that can be done that hasnt already been done with this platform.
I do remeber Raven's Engine Swap though..Im sorry I left that one out.
WildWeasel wrote:This is the point in life that you hear people talking about who are much older and regret having given up their first great rides. Sure, those people gave up muscle cars or classic convertibles or hot rods but it's really no different than those letting their sport compacts go today. Years from now, I don't want to see sport compacts from our era in shows and think about how I should never have got rid of mine.
I don't ever expect to see a j-body pulling in 6-figures in the 2050 Barrett Jackson auction... but I do imagine the time will come when all but a very small number have gone back to the earth and it becomes unique and unusual to see one on the streets in good condition. People like us will see them and remember these days when we knew the cars inside and out, good and bad, and loved them regardless of their faults. These cars are our toys and tied to our youth. One day they'll be symbols of nostalgia and when that day somes, I look forward to being able to go into the garage and pull the cover off and take it for a ride.
WW your sentiments actually match mine are. And as i look for a more "practical" car the next few months I seriously consider just holding onto this J just because of that.
Say it with me, "Its not what you know...It's what you can prove"
Wild Weasel wrote:
This is the point in life that you hear people talking about who are much older and regret having given up their first great rides. Sure, those people gave up muscle cars or classic convertibles or hot rods but it's really no different than those letting their sport compacts go today. Years from now, I don't want to see sport compacts from our era in shows and think about how I should never have got rid of mine.
I don't ever expect to see a j-body pulling in 6-figures in the 2050 Barrett Jackson auction... but I do imagine the time will come when all but a very small number have gone back to the earth and it becomes unique and unusual to see one on the streets in good condition. People like us will see them and remember these days when we knew the cars inside and out, good and bad, and loved them regardless of their faults. These cars are our toys and tied to our youth. One day they'll be symbols of nostalgia and when that day somes, I look forward to being able to go into the garage and pull the cover off and take it for a ride.
weasel, i think youre a genious, and that no one couldve put it better than the way you just did. and i couldnt agree with you more on any of those points. and when i get to that specific time in my life when i question whether i should keep my car, or go for something more practical, i will remember those words of wisdom and hopefully realize for myself exactly what youve said.
Quote:
WildWeasel wrote:
This is the point in life that you hear people talking about who are much older and regret having given up their first great rides. Sure, those people gave up muscle cars or classic convertibles or hot rods but it's really no different than those letting their sport compacts go today. Years from now, I don't want to see sport compacts from our era in shows and think about how I should never have got rid of mine.
I don't ever expect to see a j-body pulling in 6-figures in the 2050 Barrett Jackson auction... but I do imagine the time will come when all but a very small number have gone back to the earth and it becomes unique and unusual to see one on the streets in good condition. People like us will see them and remember these days when we knew the cars inside and out, good and bad, and loved them regardless of their faults. These cars are our toys and tied to our youth. One day they'll be symbols of nostalgia and when that day somes, I look forward to being able to go into the garage and pull the cover off and take it for a ride.
Hell yes.
"Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt..."
I've stayed true to my ricer roots
No, but other than everything else that has been mentioned, some cavaliers are actually starting to gain respect in the streets. In the last 3-4 major cities I've lived in, in the past 3-4yrs, cavaliers were usually known as the domestic civic or something of that nature. It seemed like it dawned on many other tuning entusiasts out there that these cars, once madified correctly, are something to be reckoned with. You can't get around a knowlegable tuning crowd and mention a cavalier or ecotec motor without someone actually knowing some decent information on them.
Another thing that's getting big on JBO is the clean lip kit or no kit look! "JDM" as some referred to it as.
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wow, wild weasel, so true. i also think the j is a 'starter' car for most, but for those who grow to love it and take part in the 'scene' it could be one of those things you can go into the garage and pull the cover off and take it for a ride. but for some, any compact car, is just a stage, until they go on to bigger and better things. i guess that's where i am right now. i ended up with the car because the time/price was right for me. things have changed and i still have the car. i may one day grow up and get a real job, more practical car, wife, house, etc...but in the time being, i want to enjoy driving my cavalier and modifying it, and hopefully one of these days doing big things with it.
some of the names you mentioned i remember. when i first got into the scene, the platform was on the chopping block, and many of the 'pioneers' had grown up and gotten out of the stage. i know there are still a good bit of ppl around and i think there will be a j scene for a while to come. but as people move on and leave the scene, others will replace them with their stock cars, and there intake and ebay questions. but because of the dead platform, less ppl are replacing the ones who leave. that means that a long time down the road, ther will only be a few of these ppl left on the road and hopefully i am one of them
* * BIG FOR SALE POST * *
since the eco...... cavaliers have gotten a lot more respect........
"But again has anyone done or in the progress of doing anything legitimately NEW and creative for the J-body. Or did everything die with the birth of the delta platform.? Just wanted to pose this for conversation sake."
im the type of person that never sees allot of what's done as new. to me something new has always been about something that is never seen wether its on a j or a honda or a 64 impala. these days (getting into my old man voice) kids go im the first to put 20's on a cavalier, then someone screams im the first to put 20's on a 4 door cavalier. months from now youll hear some kid scream im the first kid to put 20's on a two door maroon 02 cavalier with power windows floor mats and automatic transmission. when to me none of them are really new its just doing what someone else has done. its like the whole big jdm thing, seems every kid and their momma wants anything jdm for their cavalier, to me thats not new. thats just following in the foot steps of the honda crowd who started doing jdm about 5 years ago. i look at all the guys doing the fiberglass interiors, and to me that just following the car audio crowd that started doing that over 10 years ago. im rambling now lol
heres some more rambling.
i dont think company wise your not going to see very many new parts coming out because the platform is dead, ive talked to several companies about sponsorship and allot of them have said they arn't supporting the j-body anymore, that they are moving onto the cobalt. so unless its a guy off here that starts making products in his basement, expect less and less parts. but to the guys that are really stepping up the game that really shouldnt matter because a creative car guy wont buy everything off the shelf anyway. this is what ive seen as somewhat as an advantage over allot of the other cars out there. when your doing your own thing and making your own parts, your not going to look like everyone out there. the more original cars out there are those that went their own way instead of picking up a catalog and just buying product x,y,z
ive seen a ton of people on here, come in, drop a ton of money on parts, become broke, sell half the parts for 20% of what they bought them for, then end up doing it all over again. or selling cars for something practical. i bought my car brand new off the lot, and have worked on it little by little over the past 5 or so years and i realised when i started all the money i put into it is wasted so i made sure whenever i bought something that it was exactly what i wanted. its allot cheaper this way not to mention if u do all the work yourself we've joked around that the sunfire will go to nolan (my 9 month old) and who knows it may happen, i enjoy building the car. that to me is what allot of the fun is all about. and knowing its not worth anything why sell it.
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^^^ i totally agree jason.
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so unless its a guy off here that starts making products in his basement, expect less and less parts.
it's my garage, thank you very much.
-Www.IznTrbl.Com-
I know of at least 3 people doing some pretty crazy stuff over the next winter season I myself amd redoing the car from the ground up. What do you consider new I mean things can only stay new for an older car for so long, a body conversion that isnt new people were doign that 5 years ago but different variations are new. Jeff (Bagdfire) 22's on the rear cutting the axle thats new hes been doing this for a long time some pretty insane stuff tail light conversion and headlight conversion almost 4 years ago, its these guys who got me into this when I bought the car 2.5 years ago I know I'll never be in the top of the list but how can you be when everything has been done you just need to addapt it to be your own.
I got mine out of necessity.
I needed a cheap car that would get me and my family where we needed to go. it was only till afterward that I found out this cars potential and that there was actually a non ricer knoledgable following for it
see, I am working backwards here. I have owned and modded several trans ams, mustangs, t-birds, trucks, ect.. so I know what those cars are all about. however though my car is not as fast as others I have owned it has surprised me (and several others that have seen my taillights). I have a very special place in my heart for a sleeper. and seeing the look on sombodys face when you beat them in a j, vs. the look you get when you do it in a mustang, is absolutly priceless.
now a little more on topic: when I first started in the whole j following, there were very little j's on the streets. and very little in the aftermarket. now, after a year or so I am seeing more and more modded j's on the street every day. and the aftermarket, though not growing quickly, I think is still growing. look at out competition, the civic. people go in and out of that scene every day. but thier scene started growing before ours did. while we get laughed at and underestemated, they get laughed at and underestemated also. but they are still going and not slowing down, I belive we can do the same.
as far as aftermarket dying off, there are dead platforms that still have an aftermarket base everywhere. the only difference between the cobalt and the j is the name. its an upgraded platform but basically the same thing(btw I walked a cobalt tonite
). we might as well call them 4gen's or something. so even though things don't look to good right now, I think in the end everything will turn out.
even if I am completely wrong on everything I just said, I plan on sticking by this platform for a long time to come(though lumpy idol of a cammed sbc is still trying to draw me back to the darkside).
and thats what I think is the important part here
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when you beat someone in a civic people wine and make excuses
when you beat someone in a cavalier they pull over and check under thier hoods
alot i think to myself why am i modding a j-body when i could be running seconds faster with a srt-4 or evo with the cash i put into this economy car but then i think of the payments on those things and how many of them are around and easy it is to make them "fast" and im happy i have a j-body that runs what it does. if you look at how easy it is to make a "stock" car fast nowadays its almost pointless to mod anything you would think. i mean lets say i bought a cobalt ss s/c for example, all i have to do to run 13's is go to gm and say i want stage 2 and bam $600 and ive dropped a second, with these factory upgrades mopar and gm are offering lately it almost makes me wanna just call it quites and buy one of those cars but then again that wouldnt be somewhat original because every quoted unquote "tuner" is doing that.
i also see a handful of people on the ORG commenting about how theres nothing really new happening with our cars but if your from where im from (small town/county) i dont know of any cavalier or sunfires with what i have done or even boosted for that matter. So that kind of helps me stay in the scene of j-bodys since theres not abunch creeping around here to make me get sick of seeing them. i mean theres the typical j's around with big wings and mufflers and clear tails but to me thats nothing, im more into the serious performance stuff, ex. boost, nitrous. You might be saying you drive a sunfire and say your into serious performance stuff but hey, thats where im at right now until i can satisfy myself with this particular car and move onto something else.
wait for my car to come out of its "rebirth"...
i dont know....i have seen so much crazy stuff these days done to rides....i love my jbody and will continue on my verge for 600hp..hehe
i knwo im not recognized hugely by the jbody.org scene but locally i am known for many cars i have built from jetta, 2 cougars, many ford lifted 4x4s, 3 cavs, bmw 328 i, 4 neons, 240 sx and many other im on 23 now. the problem isnt j body or whats gonna be new. the problem is running out of stuff to do. or people therfore changing direction in what they want for their tuner car. i cant count how many poeple locally and on teh boards are going for go instead of show hell im one of them (not with the cav). i had my all motor 96 z and sold it. now im in an 03 4 door. ive only been working on this car since march of this year (06) ive done the front end swap, trunk and tail swap, grand am sides, air ride, custom hood, and just got paint. now im thinking of selling the car and buying a stock cav to do all motor. the point im getting at here is people arent bored with js in general its the j they own their bored with. the pioneers in j tuning and modding mentioned above have done great things. from crazy levels of boost to sweet looking 2nd gens, and wild wide bodies. ive built and sold 22 cars all aftermarket. ive said 22 times (everytime ive sold one of my toys) that i was getting out of the scene. granted im not as old as most on here im only 19, but i have 2 kids (3 including the one i lost in december 05) a mortgage wife and all the bills that come with living on your own and raising a family. this hobby is as adictive one when people get scared after thinking of how much theyve spent or how much time they put into it they want out. i cant tell you how many girl friends, jobs, and friends ive lost over this hobby. so once again its not just j bodies making people back out theyre waking up and realizing how addicting this is. sorry i rambled these are my views on this topic.
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Lately Ive seen alot of tuner style cars for sale at used lots around where I live and it seemses that the "go fast while looking good" breed is slowly becoming exstinct. If you guys are willing to donate to me... Ill come up with something innovating
lol It just seems that there are more bills then there is the earge to mod your cars, atleast thats why mine is still basicly stock.
