Lest talk about this bill Obama is trying to pass thru congress.

Is it available to the public for viewing?

This bill needs to be killed. It's got almost nothing to do with stimulus.

It's now available on ReadTheStimulus.org

Also, check out the Congressional Budget Office analysis of it at CBO.gov

If you have watched any of the polls, the stimulus package is losing public support by the day, and rightly so. Now Obama is talking tonight to try and yet again blame the Republicans for getting in the way of saving the country. He keeps trying to rush this bill in, and is just about in panic mode watching it's support dwindle.

I love the statement he made today about the people voting against tax cuts in November. What happened to the notion he ran on about his plan cutting taxes for 95% of Americans? Sounds to me like he promised tax cuts, and got the votes. No one voted for him based on promises to not cut taxes.

Dont the Democrats have enough seats to defeat any attempt by the Republicans to block them?

Sooo where is the $920 billion going to come from?

Us, and then we will pay it right back the next tax time.....


wast of time.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

mitdr774 wrote:Sooo where is the $920 billion going to come from?

They are going to print a large amount of it, which will cause massive inflation, thereby making us all poor, because the money we make now isn't going to be worth anywhere near as much in a couple of years.

The national debt is going to go so high that it will never, ever, have a chance of being repaid. They will begin using this as an argument that they can not afford to cut taxes, because the debt has to be repaid. The economy will continue to suffer.

I seriously urge everyone to call or email their senators and representatives and tell them they absolutely can not pass this bill until it is stripped down to real stimulus: infrastructure projects that will start immediately (none of the "shovel ready" sh!t that won't get started until 2011 or later!), and real marginal tax rate cuts for the majority of Americans.

I believe that there are plenty of them that don't want to pass this bill, but they really need to understand that the people who elected them do not want this huge bill. Remember that above all, those people want to keep their job. If they get the feeling that the majority of the people want them to go a certain way, they are not going to want to go against it, and risk losing their job in 2010.

A little tidbit to make the point of how well marginal rate cuts can work in two ways: when the tax rates were lowered in 2003, not only did the economy start improving, but the collected tax revenue actually went up over previous years. This was also true in the 80's. The common misconception is that when you lower taxes, you lower revenue. It's the reverse. Think about it in terms of a store putting things on sale. Do you think they do it to sell the same number as they did before? No, they do it because it gets people to buy more, so even though the store makes a little less on each item, they make more overall because of the increase in volume. Same exact concept here.

All of the so called stimulus packages are total @!#$. Its funny, economic experts can tell them exactly how to solve the economic crisis but they won't listen and it will work better than any stimulus bill they can come up with. They need to take the money they want to use for stimulus and re-finance every loan that is in foreclosure or refinance for any person who wants to get a lower monthly payment. Re-finance all these loans and give them all a set rate at say 4% fixed for the life of the loan. For most americans that will lower their monthly payments to a level that they can pay, and put extra money in their pocket to spend. If you refinance with the governments help, you can not file bankruptcy on your home loan, if your home is already in foreclosure you have to refinance. There needs to be some accountability for these idiots who took out these loans and did not read the fine print and borrowed either more than their house was worth or borrowed more than they could afford. If some of these loans turn into 50 year loans so the payments can be made then so be it, thats what you get for not being a responsible borrower. This would make all of these worthless loans worth something again, the main cause of the problem, because they would all be guaranteed to be paid off, the banks will not make as much money off of them because of the lower rate but who cares, screw the banks they helped create this problem in the first place so they should be punished in the repair process.

I do agree that there does need to be some infrastructure projects to get people who have lost their jobs to get back to work. But lets face it, Congress in not capable of passing these kinds of bills without adding so much worthless spending into them. We need to vote all of our present law makers out of office and vote in average Joes that actually have something to gain by good legislature being passed. Outlaw all forms of lobbying, cut the pay rate of Congressmen and Senators to $45,000.00 and make it a Constitutional amendment that their pay can not go up any faster than the inflation rate, no pay raises or bonuses. Let them keep their health care but only for their immediate family and only for the time they are in office. With politicians actually having to live like the rest of us in this country maybe they will start making better decisions. Every bill that comes out of Washington has so much frivolous spending in it no wonder the national debt is so exorbitant.

The Government pisses me off.

KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.

Harrington Esquire wrote:
I do agree that there does need to be some infrastructure projects to get people who have lost their jobs to get back to work. But lets face it, Congress in not capable of passing these kinds of bills without adding so much worthless spending into them. We need to vote all of our present law makers out of office and vote in average Joes that actually have something to gain by good legislature being passed. Outlaw all forms of lobbying, cut the pay rate of Congressmen and Senators to $45,000.00 and make it a Constitutional amendment that their pay can not go up any faster than the inflation rate, no pay raises or bonuses. Let them keep their health care but only for their immediate family and only for the time they are in office. With politicians actually having to live like the rest of us in this country maybe they will start making better decisions. Every bill that comes out of Washington has so much frivolous spending in it no wonder the national debt is so exorbitant.

The Government pisses me off.

I agree 100% with you on this part



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Even Obama called it a spending package last night. @!#$ joke.

Do we really need to spend a TRILLION dollars at this point? I understand few of the infrastructure projects, but @!#$, when does it end? Also, those infrastructure upgrades wouldn't take place for at least a year, most likely more. Where is the immediate relief in that? By the time they break ground on any of it, this country could potentially become nothing but a memory.

I also enjoyed how he made sure to mention "I came into office and this deficit was handed to me". Really? I thought you signed up for this? I thought you said you had a plan? Was spending BILLIONS/TRILLIONS really your only plan?

get your rifles gentleman, we're gonna need them.

I love to find one of those Obama supporters who thought he was going to help their personal financial situation. Ask them how they feel about the 600 bucks Bush put in their pocket compared to Obama's stimulous plan which gives them a big fat zero.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Funny how history sometimes repeats isn't


But in all serious 900 billion is crazy, so much Pork it unbelievable. As for the infrastructure and shovel ready project in reality they won't begin for at least 6 month to a year because of planning, permits, zoning, etc.
I am all for improving the countries infrastructure we desperately need it but I don't think that will stimulate the economy.

The question is then, instead of complaining who's fault and who said what...

How about provide something that can use money right away that will in effect help the economy?

J03Y Esquire wrote:get your rifles gentleman, we're gonna need them.

Got um, and plenty of ammo. Just make sure it is more firepower than your average cop has.

Wade Jarvis wrote: I love to find one of those Obama supporters who thought he was going to help their personal financial situation. Ask them how they feel about the 600 bucks Bush put in their pocket compared to Obama's stimulous plan which gives them a big fat zero.

I could care less if my taxes go up as long as someone fixes the actual problems and not just trying to put band-aids on gunshot wounds.

KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.

Quote:

The Fierce Urgency of Pork

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, February 6, 2009; A17



"A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe."

-- President Obama, Feb. 4.



Catastrophe, mind you. So much for the president who in his inaugural address two weeks earlier declared "we have chosen hope over fear." Until, that is, you need fear to pass a bill.

And so much for the promise to banish the money changers and influence peddlers from the temple. An ostentatious executive order banning lobbyists was immediately followed by the nomination of at least a dozen current or former lobbyists to high position. Followed by a Treasury secretary who allegedly couldn't understand the payroll tax provisions in his 1040. Followed by Tom Daschle, who had to fall on his sword according to the new Washington rule that no Cabinet can have more than one tax delinquent.

The Daschle affair was more serious because his offense involved more than taxes. As Michael Kinsley once observed, in Washington the real scandal isn't what's illegal, but what's legal. Not paying taxes is one thing. But what made this case intolerable was the perfectly legal dealings that amassed Daschle $5.2 million in just two years.

He'd been getting $1 million per year from a law firm. But he's not a lawyer, nor a registered lobbyist. You don't get paid this kind of money to instruct partners on the Senate markup process. You get it for picking up the phone and peddling influence.

At least Tim Geithner, the tax-challenged Treasury secretary, had been working for years as a humble international civil servant earning non-stratospheric wages. Daschle, who had made another cool million a year (plus chauffeur and Caddy) for unspecified services to a pal's private equity firm, represented everything Obama said he'd come to Washington to upend.

And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of the House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not just bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination.

It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous Smoot-Hawley trade war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6 million for new construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which, reports the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15 vacant schools and, quite logically, no plans for new construction.

It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs) are suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an immediate job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds of billions that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own budget office says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are little more than the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven parochialism that Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said.

Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics where the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past would give way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy. That is what made Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce urgency of now" includes $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and farm-raised fish) insurance.

The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of old-politics influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time the stimulus bill reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal, pharmaceutical and high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a new plan to repatriate overseas profits that would yield major tax savings. California wine growers and Florida citrus producers were fighting to change a single phrase in one provision. Substituting "planted" for "ready to market" would mean a windfall garnered from a new "bonus depreciation" incentive.

After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory Obama would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and that this president told better than anyone.

I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half weeks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...502766_pf.html





"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

^^^^ That cant be, Obama can do nothing wrong.

Hilarious how everyone here singing the "sky is falling."

By the way we're at 7.6% unemployment rate
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Job-weakness-Beyond-cnnm-14277106.html

What we need is $300 in our our pockets to bring the rate to a safer level of under 3.5%. Or better yet raise the tax rate to 35% on folks who make $5K-$150K and lower the tax percentage to 5% on folks that make $350K to $X,000,000,000 that way more money is in their pocket and of course and in return private businesses will have "help wanted" ads all over the place. You know the top half ALWAYS helps us out. Bless them all.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

mclonedogmcwad wrote:
Funny how history sometimes repeats isn't


But in all serious 900 billion is crazy, so much Pork it unbelievable. As for the infrastructure and shovel ready project in reality they won't begin for at least 6 month to a year because of planning, permits, zoning, etc.
I am all for improving the countries infrastructure we desperately need it but I don't think that will stimulate the economy.

The question is then, instead of complaining who's fault and who said what...

How about provide something that can use money right away that will in effect help the economy?

I actually just heard on lunch break that half the projects aren't even scheduled until 2011-2013. So we're looking to stimulate the economy in another 3-4 years apparently.

With the current bill for the plan they could just give every man, woman, and child listed on the US census $3008. Of course that would also mean no pork spending and the money would actually go to the people.

Personally I would rather they just stop useless spending and start working on getting out of debt, kind of like what normal people have to do.

mitdr774 wrote:With the current bill for the plan they could just give every man, woman, and child listed on the US census $3008. Of course that would also mean no pork spending and the money would actually go to the people.

Then you still have to pay it back, plus interest.

wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.

LOL

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Hilarious how everyone here singing the "sky is falling."

No, that would be your golden boy, who's been using the fear tactic to force his pork bill through before everyone realizes what happened.

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:What we need is $300 in our our pockets to bring the rate to a safer level of under 3.5%. Or better yet raise the tax rate to 35% on folks who make $5K-$150K and lower the tax percentage to 5% on folks that make $350K to $X,000,000,000 that way more money is in their pocket and of course and in return private businesses will have "help wanted" ads all over the place. You know the top half ALWAYS helps us out. Bless them all.

Another sarcastic liberal exaggeration.

You know what would really work? That would help absolutely everyone?

Change the tax code to eliminate the #2 and #4 tiers, and incorporate them into the one below them (aka combine #1 & #2, and combine #3 & #4), then knock each of them down a few points. This would give everyone a tax break, and simplify the system. Then increase the personal/child deduction from $3,500 to $5,000. Now lower business tax rates by 5 points, including the capital gains tax. Also, make all interest paid on houses and vehicles deductable.

If the government would do this, and spend absolutely zero money on all of the pet projects Pelosi and Reid want to see passed, and I guarantee this economy would start moving again, and not in a small way. Our budget deficit would shrink, because we didn't spend on useless wasteful projects, and the revenue would increase.

Then, Obama could do what he promised during the campaign season, which was to go through the budget line by line, and cut out the waste. That also won't happen, because it was just a lie to get votes, as was his promise to cut taxes for 95% of Americans. I like how yesterday he said that the people voted against tax cuts in November. He must have forgot that he said just a week before the election that he was going to cut taxes.

Whatever wrote:

mitdr774 wrote:With the current bill for the plan they could just give every man, woman, and child listed on the US census $3008. Of course that would also mean no pork spending and the money would actually go to the people.

Then you still have to pay it back, plus interest.

Just saying that with the projected cost of the plan they could just give every person that much money. However you are right, our government would just tax the @!#$ out of it.

so here's the link to the bill

CONGRESS

111TH CONGRESS
1ST SESSION

H. R. 1
Making supplemental appropriations for job preservation and creation, infrastructure
investment, energy efficiency and science, assistance to the
unemployed, and State and local fiscal stabilization, for the fiscal year
ending September 30, 2009, and for other purposes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TITLE VII—HOMELAND SECURITY

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION

SALARIES AND EXPENSES
For an additional amount for ‘‘Salaries and Ex21
penses’’, $100,000,000, for non-intrusive detection tech
nology to be deployed at sea ports of entry

CONSTRUCTION
For an additional amount for ‘‘Construction’’,
$150,000,000, to repair and construct inspection facilities
at land border ports of entry.

TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
AVIATION SECURITY
For an additional amount for ‘‘Aviation Security’’,
$500,000,000, for the purchase and installation of explo
sive detection systems and emerging checkpoint tech
nologies: Provided, That the Assistant Secretary of Home
land Security (Transportation Security Administration)
shall prioritize the award of these funds to accelerate the
installations at locations with completed design plans and
to expeditiously award new letters of intent

NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
CONSTRUCTION
(INCLUDING TRANSFER OF FUNDS)
For an additional amount for ‘‘Construction’’,
$1,700,000,000, for projects to address critical deferred
maintenance needs within the National Park System, in
cluding roads, bridges and trails, and for other critical in
frastructure projects: Provided, That funds may be trans
ferred to ‘‘Operation of the National Park System’’: Pro
vided further, That $200,000,000 of these funds shall be
for projects related to the preservation and repair of his
torical and cultural resources within the National Park


those are just high lights.
I need to actually take my time and read this bill.


CONGRESS

recent poll done this week states that the MAJORITY of america wants the stimulas package to pass but the MAJORITY also believes IT WONT DO ANY GOOD.


Theres america for you. god we gotta pass that bill even though we know it wont do a bit of good.


i think the econemy would get back on track if the goverment kept its nose out of it.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Correct.



Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

It would absolutely get back on track. However, it would get on track faster, and still stay there, if they would simply create a few tax incentives for both individuals and businesses, something like I posted yesterday. Tax breaks and incentives, if permanent, are a long-term stimulus, as well as short term, because individuals and businesses can see immediate increases in what they keep of their money, and also plan on it being there for months/years to come, thereby truly offering a stable stimulus to the economy.

I actually like the fact that they are thinking of increasing the one-time $7,500 first time home buyers' intrest free loan to $15,000. I think there should be some qualifiers in there, as well as some provisions, such as the mortgage needs to be a conventional one, none of this BS they have come up with over the past decade. Also, it absolutely needs to be paid back. If you read the stimulus, they are actually allowing some people to be exempt from paying it back. That's welfare socialism at it's worst. I don't want my taxes to go to pay for other peoples' down payment on a house. I expect it to all be paid back.

You know what GOODWRENCH @!#$ OFF!

seriously you are so pissed off at not having enough money it is redicoulous. I was taught to work hard and make a way. My grandfather did it from literally nothing and he got to that oh so terrible top half you pompous ignorant ass.

He was soo terrible that when he and his wife died 4 million yea 4 million dollars went to the government I really doubt you will ever pay taxes enough in your life to chip away at a quarter of it and If you do or don't I don't care it isnt my business. However that little demonstration of money to the government can help to show how the fortune my mother has and has worked for as well gives more money to the government than most Americans ever will.

So screw off all of you really think that the upper class doesn't pay enough. Not to mention the fact that they recieve little in governmental help because they don't need it so once again they help out more than you do.

Really you hate taxes just like the next guy and guess what that next guy may be a multi millionaire and neither one of you likes having your money taken away. You want equality and fairness fine everyone should pay the same amount. That is fairness the same amount of cookies for everyone just like in preschool.

Get off it if you hate not having more money work harder save your money and invest it. BUt CHRIST I am so sick of hearing you bash on the wealthy and how terrible they are when they give more than you do. OH and most of those terriible evil horrible people give the majority of funding to charities and organizations that improve this country and other peoples lives.


The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig

Quote:

seriously you are so pissed off at not having enough money it is redicoulous. I was taught to work hard and make a way. My grandfather did it from literally nothing and he got to that oh so terrible top half you pompous ignorant ass.

Negative, I'm happy where I'm at.

Quote:

He was soo terrible that when he and his wife died 4 million yea 4 million dollars went to the government I really doubt you will ever pay taxes enough in your life to chip away at a quarter of it and If you do or don't I don't care it isnt my business. However that little demonstration of money to the government can help to show how the fortune my mother has and has worked for as well gives more money to the government than most Americans ever will. So screw off all of you really think that the upper class doesn't pay enough. Not to mention the fact that they recieve little in governmental help because they don't need it so once again they help out more than you do.

So that was that a Estate Tax or "Death tax?" Not a yearly tax price? If that was a yearly price that he paid at a rate of $4 million, then the man made over $1 billion dollars, taking out $4 million dollars to a billionaire is like taking chump change. Next time you see your tax deductions, does it feel like chump change was taken out of you?
Also not to mention depending on what sector you're at, you get "kick-backs," "rebates," "incentives." Did your grandfather receive those benefits? I dunno and quite frankly don't care, but I would not expect you to admit any if you are here supporting the wealthy.

Quote:

Really you hate taxes just like the next guy and guess what that next guy may be a multi millionaire and neither one of you likes having your money taken away. You want equality and fairness fine everyone should pay the same amount. That is fairness the same amount of cookies for everyone just like in preschool.

Sorry that sounds to Leninist/communist for me and it would not work.
Let say there was 40% tax across the board. I make let say $10K a year, that means $4K is taken out, I am left with $6K for my self, I could not survive with $6K a year, it would be big hit. Now if I made $100,000,000. that's $40 million taken out, where I get left with $60 million. I could survive with $60 million a year. Do you see a discrepancy?

Quote:

Get off it if you hate not having more money work harder save your money and invest it. BUt CHRIST I am so sick of hearing you bash on the wealthy and how terrible they are when they give more than you do. OH and most of those terriible evil horrible people give the majority of funding to charities and organizations that improve this country and other peoples lives.

History has shown around the world that the wealthy has "a foot on throat" on the common people. Much of which has not changed today and now at that times they get special treatment.
But yhea they give more in figure wise, but give less when it comes to their income ratio (per) taken out.

Oh and BTW if your grandpapi gave out $4million for his company as Estate tax, although it would be big-small company, your grandpapi would NOT classify as the 1% or an elite crowd, where the problem lies.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.