I have read two different things about this tuner, will this tuner work on the 2.2 ecotec or not? i picked one up the other day. I have read in the performance gm web site that it work just as well as a FMU. Would some one Please let me Know if you have one on your 2.2 and how well does it work before i go through all of the work of putting it in.
03 Chevy Cavalier $1500.00
Turbo T3/4 $100.00
Inter-cooler $40.00
Kicking your $10,000 cars ass $ priceless $
David Jackman wrote:I have read two different things about this tuner, will this tuner work on the 2.2 ecotec or not? i picked one up the other day. I have read in the performance gm web site that it work just as well as a FMU. Would some one Please let me Know if you have one on your 2.2 and how well does it work before i go through all of the work of putting it in.
Which performance GM website?
Not it will not work as a FMU. Not on a Jbody.
Now as a HUGH MAYBE. If your car had the GM Supercharger reflash you might get this to work, but I do not think it has been tried on that setup. On a Ecotec with the factory ECU settings it is going to cause more issues.
FU Tuning
Apexi's are only useful for cars that can't have any type of programming on the computer, with hp tuners around for the eco, theres really no reason to run one
Only real problem for ecos on a stock computer is adding fuel per boost, there are different ways to do this, if your not turbo or supercharged there is no reason to use anything but HPT (HP tuners)
1. GM supercharger reflash, adds fuel per boost but you cannot change anything after the tune is locked, can be used with supercharger or turbo
2. Hpt with Hahn street race intake manifold and port fueler, has its own map sensor and adds fuel per boost, you can tune codes and spark advance and normal driving with hpt
This is good for turbo setups however cannot be run with a roots style M62 supercharger as the GM one is, you could run it with a centrifugal supercharger but those have proven costly for little result, trust me
3. Small ratio FMU with HPT, this will bump up fuel pressure and allow you to stay within the tuneable VE range in HPT, ideal for blower or turbo setups
4. Piggybacks - Greddy E-manage is the only one I know that I've saw work, has nice "auto tune" feature provided your using a wideband, which you should be
5. Stand Alone Fuel system - Megasquirt, Holly commander, Accel DFi, MSD much higher skill level needed to use one of these and theres a much higher cost but there are no limitations with these
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
the safc-2 works by modifying the MAP sensor signal in order to change fueling.
our PCM doesn't use the MAP sensor for fueling.
do you think its going to work?
If the PCM does not use the map for fueling the how does the PCM get its fueling from? it would have to use TPS MAP and O2 to compute load and rpm, i do not see why it would not work, I am N/A I am trying to run E85 i was just curious if it would work for more fuel for E85. i am needing 25% more fuel to run E85.
03 Chevy Cavalier $1500.00
Turbo T3/4 $100.00
Inter-cooler $40.00
Kicking your $10,000 cars ass $ priceless $
David Jackman wrote:If the PCM does not use the map for fueling the how does the PCM get its fueling from? it would have to use TPS MAP and O2 to compute load and rpm, i do not see why it would not work, I am N/A I am trying to run E85 i was just curious if it would work for more fuel for E85. i am needing 25% more fuel to run E85.
Your pcm uses the Alpha-N fueling scheme, which only requires the tps and RPM signals. The map sensor on these cars is used for spark advance and the O2 sensor is a narrowband sensor, so it can only be used for closed loop commanding a stoich AFR.
So, in short... The SAFC will not work on an ECO J-body PCM without the GM reflash.
I have no signiture
Has anyone tried the re flash with a mas air flow instead of the map.
03 Chevy Cavalier $1500.00
Turbo T3/4 $100.00
Inter-cooler $40.00
Kicking your $10,000 cars ass $ priceless $
David Jackman wrote:Has anyone tried the re flash with a mas air flow instead of the map.
Seriously... You are a TOOL... You don't even have a MAF! Just go to ebay and by your self a "chip"....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
David Jackman wrote:Has anyone tried the re flash with a mas air flow instead of the map.
umm...what? A mass airflow tune and a MAP tune (speed density) are completely different. You cannot swap out your map sensor and replace it with a MAF. That simply doesn't make any sense. Your MAP sensor reads the density of the air in the manifold, whereas a MAF sensor measures the physical "mass" of air flowing into the engine. This means a MAP tune changes with RPM, whereas a MAF tune doesn't. As an "Auto Technician," I would think that would be one of the basic things you should have learned.
Were you to actually do this, you would run ridiculously lean, from the low MAF signal, ensuring that you'd not have an engine for very long. You would be better off piggy-backing an SAFC and pretending it worked.
I have no signiture
David Jackman wrote:If the PCM does not use the map for fueling the how does the PCM get its fueling from? it would have to use TPS MAP and O2 to compute load and rpm, i do not see why it would not work, I am N/A I am trying to run E85 i was just curious if it would work for more fuel for E85. i am needing 25% more fuel to run E85.
our PCM runs on an alpha-n setup, which means it uses a fuel look-up table based on RPM and TPS (throttle position). Since our PCM is alpha-n, it does not calculate load, one of alpha-n's major draw backs.
You've been told several times already that it will not work.. asking the same question again does not change the answer.
Forget your theories, and trust the hands on experience of people who have been working with this platform for years. The safc will NOT WORK ON A JBODY.
if you want to do any kind of actual tuning, get HP Tuners.
/thread
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:David Jackman wrote:If the PCM does not use the map for fueling the how does the PCM get its fueling from? it would have to use TPS MAP and O2 to compute load and rpm, i do not see why it would not work, I am N/A I am trying to run E85 i was just curious if it would work for more fuel for E85. i am needing 25% more fuel to run E85.
our PCM runs on an alpha-n setup, which means it uses a fuel look-up table based on RPM and TPS (throttle position). Since our PCM is alpha-n, it does not calculate load, one of alpha-n's major draw backs.
You've been told several times already that it will not work.. asking the same question again does not change the answer.
Forget your theories, and trust the hands on experience of people who have been working with this platform for years. The safc will NOT WORK ON A JBODY.
if you want to do any kind of actual tuning, get HP Tuners.
/thread
Why is everyone stuck on that piece of crap HP tuner i have one and i do not like it. i do not know why they listed the SAFC2 on the parts list for turbo charging a Jbody if it does not work.
03 Chevy Cavalier $1500.00
Turbo T3/4 $100.00
Inter-cooler $40.00
Kicking your $10,000 cars ass $ priceless $
David Jackman wrote:
Why is everyone stuck on that piece of crap HP tuner i have one and i do not like it. i do not know why they listed the SAFC2 on the parts list for turbo charging a Jbody if it does not work.
1) Because HPT is what works on our cars.
2) Because people like you will buy it.
Sell me your HPT?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:07 PM
David Jackman wrote:DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:David Jackman wrote:If the PCM does not use the map for fueling the how does the PCM get its fueling from? it would have to use TPS MAP and O2 to compute load and rpm, i do not see why it would not work, I am N/A I am trying to run E85 i was just curious if it would work for more fuel for E85. i am needing 25% more fuel to run E85.
our PCM runs on an alpha-n setup, which means it uses a fuel look-up table based on RPM and TPS (throttle position). Since our PCM is alpha-n, it does not calculate load, one of alpha-n's major draw backs.
You've been told several times already that it will not work.. asking the same question again does not change the answer.
Forget your theories, and trust the hands on experience of people who have been working with this platform for years. The safc will NOT WORK ON A JBODY.
if you want to do any kind of actual tuning, get HP Tuners.
/thread
Why is everyone stuck on that piece of crap HP tuner i have one and i do not like it. i do not know why they listed the SAFC2 on the parts list for turbo charging a Jbody if it does not work.
Because it is your only
REAL option for tuning, short of a full standalone. If you really want to get a speed density tune, then Megasquirt is probably your cheapest route...or do you think that is crap too?
Let me get this straight... You are a master technician who doesn't understand the difference between a MAF and MAP, hates a real pcm programer, and loves using a piggyback (bandaid) device to fool the stock pcm PE tune to hopefully achieve some result. Does that sound about right?
Sorry, but it sounds to me like you only know enough buzzwords to impress your ignorant friends without actually knowing what you're talking about and you already bought an SAFC and are trying to get some reassurance for your unfortunately expensive new paper weight. Please prove me wrong. I beg you to give me some reason to believe you are what you say you are.
I have no signiture
David Jackman wrote:
Why is everyone stuck on that piece of crap HP tuner i have one and i do not like it.
Apparently you are too damn stupid to know how to use it properly...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Re: SAFC II Whats wrong with using it?
Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:34 AM
95nosz24
Whoever told you they won't work, is probably an idiot that has never seen, installed, or used an S-AFC or S-AFC2 on any car, much less a j-body. Also works when used with an FMU. (I have larger injectors and FMU also)
Both models will work just fine on your car. On the dyno I gained 20hp @the wheels with my S-AFC. Listen to the people with experience, not the newbies.
<br>
Randy
1995 2.3HO Swap Turboed Z24 220.2HP,208.3TQ @the wheels, 7psi
1995 2.3HO Swap Sunfire GT
Your all a bunch of idiot teenager that do not know what the hell you laking about, NEWBIES
03 Chevy Cavalier $1500.00
Turbo T3/4 $100.00
Inter-cooler $40.00
Kicking your $10,000 cars ass $ priceless $
you double posted so i figure i will too, i dont usually get into these arguments but your acting very dense. the 6 year old message you have posted is referencing a 95 cavalier.....once again as before in the other post 95 ecu=speed densit=map based fueling=will work.....96 plus ecu=alpha-n=not map based fueling=wont work.
once again this is info about the cavalier ecu...not the delta in your link which is completely different.
If your that dead set on using it then hook it up and proove us wrong or appologise when you realize your not as smart and all knowing as you tell yourself.
I did hook it up and it does work on a N/A car. all the Apexi SAFC2 does is it fools the PCM that you basically running it at a different altitude then you really are, SINCE I AM SITING AT 6500 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL, the pcm is thinking i am at sea level giving me the extra fuel needing to run E85, If every thing that every one on this post is trying to say the engine would run like crap because the PCM does get its fueling from the map or it wouldn't know what altitude your at. by the change in atmospheric pressure. I also seen another thread on 1,2,3 bar map sensors 1 bar map does see pressure up to 1 atmosphere 14psi.
03 Chevy Cavalier $1500.00
Turbo T3/4 $100.00
Inter-cooler $40.00
Kicking your $10,000 cars ass $ priceless $
David Jackman wrote: . I also seen another thread on 1,2,3 bar map sensors 1 bar map does see pressure up to 1 atmosphere 14psi.
You have no clue what you are talking about..... a 1 BAR MAP sensor reads to atmosphere only, not to 14psi(actually its 14.7 psi which is 2 BAR)...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
1 bar reads up to 14.7 psia or 100kPa, which we call atmospheric/ambiant pressure at sea level. In reference to positive pressure or "boost" pressure, this corresponds to 0psi.
Seriously though, this guy is a mind f*ck. I hope to god he never tries to fix anything PCM related on a customer's car (especially a J-body).
I have no signiture
