Well last time I went dragging was in October just after getting new injectors and the best I could do was a 15.6 with 2.6 60 ft times and only 87-88mph traps

Many months have passed, I havent gotten any lighter and my 225lb ass is part of the problem, im running 100 psi 50/50 water methanol injection that comes on at 3psi, I get 8 degrees of knock retard from 5800 up, only thing I removed was the sub box, and left the seats, carpets, @!#$load of tools all still in the car. Went to the test and tune at Mason Dixon Dragway, I was impressed I have a new favorite track, its just like Maple Grove only its open and not clogged up with make and model specific events and cheaper. The grip is great. I got there an hour and a half before things started got my pressures at 27 on the front and as much as possible in the rears. I read something on INTENSE's website yesterday about ppl getting knock retard after buying thier LSJ PCMs, they tell folks to do the CASE relearn procedure. It just so happens that HP tuners has this as an option. So I did that then hooked up my wideband into HP tuners for data logging.

First run I did all my shifts at 6600 ( I have a 7000 redline now), launch is about all its good for I could have launched it a bit harder though, not much you can do on bald heavy 17s, personal bests on ET and mph, I know some hit faster stock but they also dont weigh 3100lbs
R/T ... .076
60' ... 2.405
330 ... 6.625
1/8 ... 10.041
MPH ... 72.20
1000 ... 12.925
1/4 ... 15.393
MPH ... 91.22

Checked the data log and sure enough the knock was much less and only 4-5 degrees instead of 8 everywhere from 5800 up. So I guess the CASE learn did some good. Now that the car was warmed I used HP Tuners to turn on the engine fans to keep things cool, in the Eco PCM if the Intake temp reaches 111 it starts cutting advance big time so I did manage to stay under 100 degrees all day on intake temps. Second run I did all shifts at 6800 except for 4th which I did at 6200 and it ended up messing up the run a bit
R/T ... .208
60' ... 2.35
330 ... 6.538
1/8 ... 9.963
MPH ... 71.70
1000 ... 12.870
1/4 ... 15.356
MPH ... 89.07

3rd run I just overdrove the car, redlighted badly and spun top half of 1st, but the MPH was good
R/T ... -.219
60' ... 2.487
330 ... 6.693
1/8 ... 10.113
MPH ... 71.90
1000 ... 13.016
1/4 ... 15.451
MPH ... 91.74

Through looking at all the Data logs it looks like the cause my knock retard is a lean condition when my AFR reaches 12.2 or Higher under 100 percent TPS the knock begins. Interesting though that after 6500 the car starts to richen up again. Heres what my AFR looks like, talk about a liner curve
4600 11.18
4700 11.44
4800 11.49
4900 11.58
5000 11.66
5100 11.41
5200 11.58
5300 11.65
5400 11.73
5500 11.86
5600 11.89
5700 12.09
5800 12.12
5900 12.37
6000 12.39
6100 12.57
6200 12.48
6300 12.58
6400 12.61
6500 12.34
6600 12.25
6700 12.05
6800 11.80
6900 11.84



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

dude are you still supercharged ? if so I'm thinking you might be better off n/a... I trapped 91 a few times when I was still stock....

and BTW get off your lazy ass and remove everything unnecessary from the car when you go to the strip lol, I don't get why people who want good times keep "a @!#$load of tools" in the car...

keep up the good work



15.574 @ 89 mph stock without charger. new times with charger coming soon.

Even a GM charger in the car wouldnt break 15s its a weight and traction issue, sadly 150sq ft of dynomat cant be stripped that easily




1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

i suppose. glad to see a improvement.

why not get a bigger injector for the water injection set up? i mean you still have knock. You have everything to monitor it and the changes it will make just so you can come back and tell me i am correct. It probably take you 5 minutes to swap it out.

www.mcmastercarr.com search for "brass misting nozzles" (page 1939). under the "Standard cone spray" you will see the ratings at 100psi. it goes from 1.0 - 15.0 just put a M in front of that. I bet you if you get a m4, or M5 injector you will get ride of all that knock. (you want the brass one, not the copper nick , or stainless).

worth a try for 8$ shipped. (takes 2 days to get to you)

well I need to upgrade my pump to 150psi for the water injection, that will flow a bit more without changing the injector



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

I do wonder where you get your info from. 150psi and a M2 injector aint going to do crap for you. YOU NEED A BIGGER INJECTOR. but whatever. I just cant get past on how you would spend what, 70ish $ for a new pump and get less results then spending 8$ to get better results.

The info is there, proof is out there on all water injection forums. You are getting knock. THE solution is a bigger injector/more water/meth until to the knock goes away. That is the main reason people buy a water injection kit, that and to reduce intake temps. Why you bought a WI kit(and that crappy s/c) is beyond me. you got a great tuning devise to use to help you monitor and adjust things.

Seems that you are content running slower then a few bolt on parts on a j body times and low dyno #S, so we cant really say anymore about the situtation or offer any helpfull suggestions..

good luck.

Well I have no idea what size injector im running now so that makes it kinda hard to pick a bigger one





1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

From what I see on the slips..

to put it bluntly...




you suck at driving.





RE Audio

the worlds greatest driver cant launch bald 17s on a 3200lb car to much better than 2.35 on 60ft with those tires

But its really funny coming from you, how many races you win with that lightning 1.0 second reaction time



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Quote:

But its really funny coming from you, how many races you win with that lightning 1.0 second reaction time

yeah. no kidding



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

you said you had a M2 injector. take it out and look.it will say M2 stamped on the injector. If you told coolingmist that you had around 200hp, you would get a m2 injector. You need a m4, or m5.

Well coolingmist doesnt denote them as M1, M2 and so forth they are rated in Gallons per hour now, so how many gallons per hour am i going for?



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

I guess I can say congradulations....... You've managed to get your 'Cow' of a car back down to stock times....... now get on a dyno, and get as much HP/Trq out of it as you can........ then go back to the track (after you remove all loose items )

I thought I'd be alittle more positive then some of the others You've made some good progress with the HPT....... you might be the fastest RSM Charged Eco here soon






SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Fastest one I know of is 14.6 I know thats beatable for sure, its cheaper for me to use the track as my dyno right now, im not really concerned with the track speeds im just there because its a safe and legal place to make 0-100mph runs, im just there for the data, once you have horsepower all other things are possible and your going to see some big jumps in speed from me once I start aiming for that



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Rodimus Prime wrote:

But its really funny coming from you, how many races you win with that lightning 1.0 second reaction time

riiiiiight.

It's called:
I was concentrating on getting my launch down...no need to car about R/T's at the time. And yeah...those slips were the first time I ever took the car to the track.

It dosent matter anyway. My car was still faster N/A than your is boosted.










RE Audio

Forgot to add...nice runs. I'm sure you'll get faster.





RE Audio

i would get these two injectors off that mcmastercarr.com site.

the M4 part # is: 3178K74 which if you look at the flow @ 100 psi it is 4.0 , hence the M4.


and M5 # 3178K75 5.0 gallons at 100 psi.
that is on page 1939 and they are the brass injectors.

you can get them from coolingmist if you want to waste $. you can basically get two injectors here at this site for the price of one there. I would put $ on that coolinmist/engine run up (i know devilsown gets his injectors from here) all buy their injectors here as they are dirt cheap.

basically just try them out, you got what you need to log everything and adjust. Just tinker with the injectors/ boost level you have your switch at and things will improve for sure. 16$ for the 2 injectors and some of your time messing with the hp tuners stuff and you will knock alot off your times.

Jake wrote:i suppose. glad to see a improvement.

why not get a bigger injector for the water injection set up? i mean you still have knock. You have everything to monitor it and the changes it will make just so you can come back and tell me i am correct. It probably take you 5 minutes to swap it out.

www.mcmastercarr.com search for "brass misting nozzles" (page 1939). under the "Standard cone spray" you will see the ratings at 100psi. it goes from 1.0 - 15.0 just put a M in front of that. I bet you if you get a m4, or M5 injector you will get ride of all that knock. (you want the brass one, not the copper nick , or stainless).

worth a try for 8$ shipped. (takes 2 days to get to you)

I agree with jake. I'm running an m4 with a 150psi pump (4.8gph) and want to run an M5 so i get 6gph..but as to ordering the standard cone vs hollow. Look at this...from Engine run ups injector selection.

All have a 1/8" NPT male connection and a removable screen filter for easy cleaning. The M1, M2, M3, & M4 injectors have an 80° spray angle. The M5, M7 & M11 injectors have a 160° spray angle, allowing for better distribution of the increased amount of water being delivered. These injector mounts are small in size for weight and allow maximum airflow. They come with either our instant quick fittings to be used with our polyethelyne tubing, or with a barb for use with your own tubing. Don't be fooled by so called injector mount upgrades, that end up taking half of the space up in your pipe. Our injectors occupy a minimal amount of space. One mount is required per injector.

Injector Flow Rates:
M1 - (.011") - 1.0 GPH @ 100 PSI, 1.2 GPH @ 150 PSI, 63 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 76 CC/min @ 150 PSI
M2 - (.015") - 2.0 GPH @ 100 PSI, 2.4 GPH @ 150 PSI, 126 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 151 CC/min @ 150 PSI
M3 - (.020") - 3.0 GPH @ 100 PSI, 3.6 GPH @ 150 PSI, 189 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 227 CC/min @ 150 PSI
M4 - (.024") - 4.0 GPH @ 100 PSI, 4.8 GPH @ 150 PSI, 252 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 303 CC/min @ 150 PSI
M5 - (.035") - 5.0 GPH @ 100 PSI, 6.0 GPH @ 150 PSI, 316 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 379 CC/min @ 150 PSI
M7 - (.045") - 7.0 GPH @ 100 PSI, 8.4 GPH @ 150 PSI, 442 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 530 CC/min @ 150 PSI
M11 - (.073") - 11 GPH @ 100 PSI, 13.2 GPH @ 150 PSI, 694 CC/min @ 100 PSI, 833 CC/min @ 150 PSI

The orfice size of the m4-m11 is actually 160 degree spray pattern, which is actually the hollow not standard cone. I just noticed this b/c i was looking to get a bigger injector the other day. Is states this on the mcmaster brass injector page (1939..cant link directly to that page).

just thought i'd infrom you guys.

Nate




Evolution of Cavyboy-->C22t--> C24na--->c24s/c
1995 Cavalier W/2k1 Engine
GM S/C 13.940@99.78pmh w/2.068 60ft

so basically i should go with an M5 or up so i can get the better spray angle



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

For whatever reason, they have deamed 160 degree (hollow cone) before for M4+ injectors...so go with it

Nate



Evolution of Cavyboy-->C22t--> C24na--->c24s/c
1995 Cavalier W/2k1 Engine
GM S/C 13.940@99.78pmh w/2.068 60ft

i would get the m4 and m5 and datalog what one makes the most difference.

yea they are cheap enough im just getting both



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Through looking at all the Data logs it looks like the cause my knock retard is a lean condition when my AFR reaches 12.2 or Higher under 100 percent TPS the knock begins. Interesting though that after 6500 the car starts to richen up again. Heres what my AFR looks like, talk about a liner curve
4600 11.18
4700 11.44
4800 11.49
4900 11.58
5000 11.66
5100 11.41
5200 11.58
5300 11.65
5400 11.73
5500 11.86
5600 11.89
5700 12.09 <<<<<<
5800 12.12 <<<<<<
5900 12.37 <<<<<<
6000 12.39 <<<<<<
6100 12.57 <<<<<<
6200 12.48 <<<<<<
6300 12.58 <<<<<<
6400 12.61 <<<<<<
6500 12.34 <<<<<<
6600 12.25 <<<<<<
6700 12.05 <<<<<<
6800 11.80
6900 11.84

change the fuel tables for those rpms to make them a little richer , and that will drop the knock down

as your car sits , i bet i can get it in the 14's , after making a few passes in it

since your not a big racing person , its understandable that your racing learning curve will be slower than those of us who race alot

im not saying im the best out there , or that your the worste out there , just saying we can all im prove more , or get worse , sometimes you gotta get worse , before you can get better

its great to see you were able to get some improvement out of the car , and get the car into a more reliable state of tune

keep tuning , and keep at it and youll see alot better times out of the car

nice table 97cavie! and a 7k redline. What kind of speeds do you reach in 1st, 2nd and espically 3rd. Cause if you can run third out in the 1/4 you save the 1/10th from shifting ino 4th. doh.. ur auto arent you.

anyhow. nice work.. wanna link to an upload of ur file??

Nate



Evolution of Cavyboy-->C22t--> C24na--->c24s/c
1995 Cavalier W/2k1 Engine
GM S/C 13.940@99.78pmh w/2.068 60ft

I know richening up the tables will fix the lean knock issue, but I have other issues such as stalling that I need to work out first, gotta walk before you can run

Ive made over 120 passes on almost a dozen tracks so im pretty confident in my abilities, I dont have the needed things for racing right now, I dont doubt I could take it to 14s as is either, im using the track mostly as a tuning session right now cause its a safe place where i wont run ppl over or get pulled over by cops and busted, im not really concerned with my times right now, if i was id be stripping the car and throwing drag radials on the credit card

C24s/c thats actually my curve he just copied and pasted what i wrote in the original post, I top out 3rd gear at 94mph and im manual



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85