I'm going to be installing a gauge pod for 3 gauges. The car is primarily being raced in AutoX with some 1/4 mile runs. What gauges do you think are important for a heads-up location?
So far I'm thinkng:
Oil Pressure
Water Temp
This car is a pretty much stock 98 Z24 with no forced induction or major engine modification. I see no need for an A/F ratio gauge. There's a water temp in the main console, but I want one that's a little more verbose with the actual temp reading. I was thinking something like a cylinder head temp, oil temp, or vaccuum.
Any ideas?
The straight answer is that if you're autocrossing... you should do none of the above. Putting gauges on your pillar restricts your visibility and you need all the visibility you can get to navigate the cones.
You don't have time on an autox course to be paying attention to gauges. If you want to keep track of what's up, put them somewhere else and point a camera at them. Then you can review them later.
Very valid point. Makes me feel stupid even
I guess I was just stuck in a gauge rut. Prior to my cav I ran a K5 blazer for off-road (mud runs and trails), had to make sure I had the essentials because the stock gauge cluster wasn't that great and just got used to having gauges in a heads-up location.
Now that you mention about the recording, perhaps something like a data logger would be a bit better? But then the question arises, is it really necessary? I like the additional gauges because it's easy to spot problems like an oil pump failure, but something like that is pretty obvious without a gauge to tell me the pressure dropped. The only use I could see from a data logger would be identifying small problems like drops in fuel pressure, vaccuum, and other odd balls.
Have you actually autox'd before or is it something you're looking to get into?
You could have an oil pressure gauge the size of a monster tach right in the middle of the dash and it could point to zero for your entire run and you wouldn't even notice it.
There's definitely value in knowing what's going on with your car during a run and if you can afford a datalogging system then it certainly has value. They are quite expensive though. I suggested the camera because it would likely be cheaper, and people often do it just to be able to review their runs later on. They'll even put a light on the dash to indicate when they're braking for the camera.
I haven't drove in Autocross yet, but I've had some seat time as a passenger. I have some drag experience (bracket racing an old F-body), though. I've been doing some thinking, and that camera idea sounds neat, but I think I've got a neat compromise for some indication while not obstructing field of vision: warning lights. You can get lights set up to illuminate below a certain pressure, above a certain temperature, etc. Small enough to be out of the way, but enough to say "Hey there's a problem"
Yeah, THAT would be effective. And the brighter the better. You might compromise a run, but if you save your car it would be worth it.
Weasal has some good points. I have never auto X but would like to try it a few times. I know of a ORG member who has been doing it for a couple years in a J and he has a gauge pod and it does not affect him. I would think it you had it before starting (like myself), you would be use to it and it you not affect you as much. I feel it is a really good idea to have the gauges. Oil pressure, Oil temp, and would probably go with Air/Fuel, or even EGT. Why not a water temp? Well you have one on the dash. I really do not ike adding gauges I already have. Maybe it is just me. Our stock gauge works fine. The air/Fuel gauge can actually be helpful if use correctly. Oil Temp is very important to let you know if you have a problem coming, and being that you will be spending a minute or so of very hard driving it would be a good idea.
For dataloggers, very good idea, and actually they are not that much, but you would need a laptop. I have one and love it.
FU Tuning
Another thing to think about is some piggy back ECU's, like the Greddy E-manage, have the ability to record 3-5 min runs when hocked up to a laptop. Not sure how practical having a lap top in the car is during auto-X, cause this summer will be my first, but just something else to think about.
Shawn M.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
unless the laptop is mounted very securely you cant hav it in your car during runs, every thing needs to be bolted down, or it may become a flying object during your run ( i even empty my glovebox now b.c i've had things break and such)
while visibility is key, a gauge pod wont hinder it all that much, assuming you know how to drive your car, where it ends, whatnot, but in all honesty, even if you have the gauges and they dont hinder your view, you dont have time to look at them during a run, you are driving and cornering which means you need to keep your eyes on the track, i do like the light idea tho, i may try that this season
have you ever flipped a car autocrossing?
I've heard of it happening, but that might just be urban legend.
You can certainly conceive of how it could happen. Courses can go near the edges of parking lots and many lots have curbs at the edges. If you were to swing around a corner at a high enough speed you could slide sideways into a curb with enough momentum to turn the car over.
It seems awfully unlikely though. I don't think anyone designing a run would be dumb enough to put a high speed turn at the edge of the lot where overshooting it would run you into a curb.
Of course... there are some pretty stupid people out there and something like that could happen out of pure oversight...
I think it would be almost in possible in normal driving. The centripetal force in a high speed turn can overcome the coeficient of friction for your tires easily. But to induce enough force on your CG to cause it to move beyond your outermost friction area without "using up" the available tire friction would require some extremely sticky tires.
This is where the curb comes into play.
Of course, even then you're probably more likely to break your wheels than actually flip the car up and over.
John Higgins wrote:Weasal has some good points. I have never auto X but would like to try it a few times. I know of a ORG member who has been doing it for a couple years in a J and he has a gauge pod and it does not affect him. I would think it you had it before starting (like myself), you would be use to it and it you not affect you as much. I feel it is a really good idea to have the gauges. Oil pressure, Oil temp, and would probably go with Air/Fuel, or even EGT. Why not a water temp? Well you have one on the dash. I really do not ike adding gauges I already have. Maybe it is just me. Our stock gauge works fine. The air/Fuel gauge can actually be helpful if use correctly. Oil Temp is very important to let you know if you have a problem coming, and being that you will be spending a minute or so of very hard driving it would be a good idea.
For dataloggers, very good idea, and actually they are not that much, but you would need a laptop. I have one and love it.
I think John is referring to me
I have 2 gauges: voltmeter and oil pressure. I NEVER check them during a run on the autocross course. I only keep an eye on them for daily driving. The gauges don't get in my at all.
I know someone that managed to go off-course, over a curb, through the grass, into something (maybe a fence or a pole), and total his mustang while autocrossing. The only story i've heard of major damage during autox.
Mitch Davis wrote:I haven't drove in Autocross yet, but I've had some seat time as a passenger. I have some drag experience (bracket racing an old F-body), though. I've been doing some thinking, and that camera idea sounds neat, but I think I've got a neat compromise for some indication while not obstructing field of vision: warning lights. You can get lights set up to illuminate below a certain pressure, above a certain temperature, etc. Small enough to be out of the way, but enough to say "Hey there's a problem"
sign up for solo school mitch i will be a instructor there to help you out.
see ya!
Mitch Davis wrote:I think it would be almost in possible in normal driving. The centripetal force in a high speed turn can overcome the coeficient of friction for your tires easily. But to induce enough force on your CG to cause it to move beyond your outermost friction area without "using up" the available tire friction would require some extremely sticky tires.
I have been to 2 auto X events. The course was flat, and not sure if you call it a high spped turn, but you are going fast just not a turn, but a "S" thingy. This mustang lost control and went off the course. He did not flip, but I could see how you could real easly. Alsways remember anything can happen. Seeing How Zach use ot bring his rear tire off the ground in turns, with lots of speed going in I could see it happen. So yeah it could happen does it happend everytime no. Probably once a year type thing.
FU Tuning
Wild Weasel wrote:The straight answer is that if you're autocrossing... you should do none of the above. .
WW pulls this knowledge from his vast knowledge of AX.
He's correct though. A-pillar gauges are in the way in any type of driving that requires turning. My three gauges are at the windshield just above the defroster vent.
I've got a 3-guage in mine, and haven't noticed much problem with it as far as autoX visibility is concerned. I'd be more concerned with wheel-to-wheel racing with a pod, as it creates something of a blind spot.
They're all right too, I never look at mine. If I have time to look, I'm not driving fast enough!
My region, I can see how a person could flip their car, we use an old airstrip. No curbs, but fields around it, and if the field has been freshly tilled (soft dirt on top), you could slide off sideways and have the leading edge tires dig in suddenly, and over you go.
The worst I've seen though is somebody who got really messed up driving and spun off into the irrigation system. Caved in his driver's side. Happened at our FIRST event this year. It's a risk we all take!
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Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.
