i purchased a spec stage 2 clutch about 10k ago. i have loved the clutch thus far. well within the last week or so, its only happened about 4 or 5 times. but the clutch wants to start grabbing immediately, and then slip until the normal "grab" point. i explained this to a friend of mine, 40 or so years as one of the best mechanics i know, well he thinks that possibly one of the springs are dragging. has anyone had problems like this?
with spec it doesn't surprise me one bit. many many people have been having problems with spec clutches in our cars.
Riddle me this... riddle me that...
is there anyone i can contact about this with spec? i thought it might be a hydrolic problem due to pumping the pedal remedies the problem.... but i dunno. he is still convinced something came apart...
I would lean towards a bad clutch master, or pressure plate bolts backing out. This has also happened. People like to jump on Spec. You can contact Spec as well. Try bleeding the clutch really good. have you checked the fluid?
FU Tuning
i was going to, but keith was almost possitive it was a physical problem with the clutch. i will check it in the am just to be sure. but if the trans is comeing out of the car... shes not going back in without the team green insert
fluid is not low, and it is very clean... next suggestion?
I had the same problem for about 2 days.. then complete failure. be careful and dont go to far from home/repair shop!!!
LOL
LOL
LOL
Not about this happing to you, but it does give more fuel to the fire for the "anti-spec" feeling's that go on here.
This is a normal thing for SPEC. look it up.
get used to it, it's what they do.
Mine did it, (S-II) and so did Brian's (S-III) and countless others.
its ALMOST as if spec doesn't know about the TSB with a bad TOB causing the bearing to come out of the slave, and making a fluid leak, thus the customer complains of a "hunting peddle release point" a bad TOB can cause this, or a bad presser plate.
I will try to find the TSB.
LUK FTW.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
well i dropped jeremy an email. and i guess we will see what comes of it at that point. and i would be VERY interested to see the TSB
what engine/tranny combos is this happening with mostly??
it DOES sound hydraulic related....did you try a bleed to see if you got any air??
or did you just check the level and color?
didnt try a bleed due to to the full level. fluid level has not been touched since car was put back together.
well after some "clarification" questions, i received an email back saying the following:
Based on the info you provided it may very well be something SAC mechanism. We do not modify this part of the assembly…but if you want tom you can pull the unit and email me some pictures of the assembly. This should provide some better insight to the issue. Thanks!
J. Auvil
800-828-4379
www.specclutch.com
so basically, the car has to come down to get pictures for them. then at that point by the wording there it doesnt even sound like they are claiming responsibility. so i guess im @!#$ out of luck....
now the question remains, is there another alternitive to spec clutch thats still a good quality clutch?
before you go tearing into it....i would have your problem verified by a tranny shop.
although if it DOES end up being the clutch....it does sound like your boned. it sounds like they are pushing off the problem onto someone else....kinda like thier re-boxed flywheels.
Look into clutch master I would say. Talk to Aaron @ turbotec, or Karo @carr customs/all ecotec.
based on the info in your profile I would just throw a stock replacement clutch in it as they hold up great and you dont really need much more. Then down the road when you are ready for more power start looking for something better.
IMO, if i had to re-do my old 2002, i would use a SPEC S-III disc, and a LUK presser plate.
you DO NOT NEED TO BLEED THE CLUTCH, get in it, grab hold of the peddle, and pump it alot, this is all that is needed with the 2000 up clutch assy's, as the only thing you can bleed is the line TO the slave, not the slave its self.
FYI, my stock VALEO\ LUK clutch out lasted my tranny, even with racing it 2 seasons.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
No...this is not a known issue. You seem to be under the impression that
this is something that is continually problematic. For future reference we
have a less than 1% return rate on any of our units (less than anyone else
in the industry) and these returns include reception of miss-ordered parts,
kits returned for rebuild, and warranty related returns as well. As I
mentioned you are technically out of warranty. As such...this will not be
straight warranty coverage. The most likely result is that you would pay a
minimum for the rebuild...but I cannot provide any estimated cost until I
know what the issue is. Let me know if you would like to send it back for
assessment and I will be happy to assist you further. Thanks!
J. Auvil
800-828-4379
www.specclutch.com
he finally answered my question... now the question is, where do i go from here to look for a clutch?
I figure that if I am going to be quoted verbatim...without my consent even though my email clearly contains this info:
"All information in this correspondence is meant for the intended recipient
only. If you receive this message by mistake please disregard.
Reproduction of this message requires the consent of its original producer."
I may as well log on and we can talk about this further. There is not some inherent issue with these units...many of you know this because you have successfully been using them for years. We have sold thousands of these and the return rate is far less than 1%. It is certainly possible that the issue in this case is hydraulic in nature. However, through our discussions Mike has seemed quite adamant about it being the clutch. That being said, I am happy to have him send the unit is for further assessment. As mentioned in my above email to him...the clutch is out of warranty based on time frame but I am happy to check it out and rebuild it at a minimum cost. Of course I can't quote pricing for a rebuild without knowing what the problem is.
Keep in mind, the clutch is built to the same height and geometry of the stock assembly. It does have an SAC mechanism...though we do not modify it at all. In most instances if the SAC mechanism fails the release point would be high...not low (this is the opposite of Mike’s issue). If I had to guess about the issue...I would bet that the self-adjuster is stuck or that this clutch disc is worn so thin that the plate can no longer adjust geometrically. At this point this is assumption because I can't see the parts.
I find it amazing that you all jump on the "it must be the clutch" bandwagon without inherently understanding the potential causes for the issue. I do not mean this as an insult by any means...as I have said before, I am here to help you all when you have an issue and that is what I have been trying to do for Mike. I guess until I develop X-ray vision that allows me to assess every clutch issue, while the parts are in the car, I will be the "bad guy" in some of your eyes. Such is life I suppose...I am doing what I can but I need to see the parts. What more can I say!!!
J. Auvil
Sales and Tech Manager
www.specclutch.com
My first Spec clutch was out of warranty before I even installed it. Same with the POS flywheel I had. My second Spec clutch that went in after said flywheel came apart (stock flywheel went back in and I couldnt be happier with the result) was 3/4 through its warranty by the time it was installed. 120 warranty is a joke.
Compared to other aftermarket manufactures it isn't a joke. Most offer 60 or 90 day warranty. I hate that you feel the way you do...but lets make sure that your reference is contextual. Ultimately we have no control over when you install the parts...
J. Auvil
Sales and Tech Manager
www.specclutch.com
Please tell me what the "self adjuster" is?
I was unaware a hydro unit had one... its hydraulic!
Do front disc breaks have one too?!
I guess the cause of the problem with all your units with the "hunting peddle" issue, could be you got all GM's known bad TOB\Slave's
OR
this for FYI,
this is what i ment when i said GM\ Valeo\ LUK re-did the pressre plate
BY RELEASE, THEY MEEN DISINGAGE, IE THE CLUTCH WILL DRAGE AND OR HAVE A LOW FRICTION POINT.
#PI00297: Service VME - M86 Manual Transmission Clutch Will Not Release Completely - (Jul 30, 2002)
Subject: Service VME -- M86 Manual Transmission Clutch Will Not Release Completely
Models: .
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When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.
SERVICE VME
After performing repair work using SPO part number 22629291 which is the clutch pressure plate for the 2.4L engine (RPO LD9), the clutch may not release completely. If this occurs and you have verified that the hydraulic release system is operating properly, a new pressure plate may be required. The pressure plate can be sensitive to impacts prior to installation and may have been damaged during shipping. Unfortunately there is no way to visually inspect for this concern prior to installation.
Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms.
also found this.
The purpose of this bulletin is to provide information regarding a bolt change to the Clutch Pressure Plate and related Service Manual and Quick Reference Specifications Guide updates for incorrect Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel torque specifications.
Clutch Pressure Plate Bolt Change Information
The M7 bolt has changed from a 1st design (11 mm) head without a collar (1) to a 2nd design (10 mm) head with a collar (2). The bolt has been changed to improve performance and durability. The new bolt torque is 24 N·m (18 ft-lbs.).
Service Manual and Quick Reference Specifications Guide Updates for Incorrect Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Torque Specifications
Please obtain all of the Transaxle Service Manuals and Quick Reference Specifications Guides listed below and make the necessary corrections as indicated.
2000-2001 L-Series Manual Transaxle Service Manual
• Page 28 Specifications, Torque. Cross out the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
• Page 206. Cross out the Torque: Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
2002 L-Series Manual Transaxle Service Manual
• Page 32 Specifications, Manual Transaxle Torque Specifications. Cross out the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
• Page 210. Cross out the Torque: Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
2002 VUE Transaxle Service Manual
• Page 52 Specifications, Transaxle Torque Charts. Cross out the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
• Page 134. Cross out the Torque: Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
2001-2002 L-Series Quick Reference Specifications Guide
• Page 433 Torque Spec Description. Cross out the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
• Page 435 Torque Spec Description. Cross out the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
2002 VUE Quick Reference Specifications Guide
Service Manual Update for 2002 Saturn VUE Chassis Service Manuals. Refer to Technical Information Bulletin 02-T-13. February, 2002.
Page 268 Torque Spec Description. Cross out the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts specifications.
After the corrections have been made, the torque specification should read as follows:
Tighten
Tighten the Pressure Plate-to-Flywheel Bolts to 24 N·m (18 lb ft.)
Parts Requirements
11519056 - Bolt/Screw - Clu Press Plt
more about the bad slave cyl's
When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.
Condition/Concern:
Repeat failure of the clutch slave cylinder accompanied by the pedal sticking to the floor.
This condition may be caused by a failed or missing master cylinder line check valve spring at the slave cylinder. If the check valve or check valve spring has failed or is missing, the clutch pedal will stick to the floor. When the pedal is pulled up, fluid will be pumped into the concentric slave cylinder. This over-strokes the slave cylinder and causes an hydraulic failure of the unit.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Replace the slave cylinder and the master cylinder. The master cylinder will include the hydraulic line with the check valve installed.
.
Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms.
Models:
(00, 01, 02, 03, 04 Chevrolet Cavalier) and (00, 01, 02, 03, 04 Pontiac Grand Am ) and (00, 01, 02 Pontiac Sunfire)
can keep going.....
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Chris I realized you got a bad taste in your mouth, but damn! You always include every clutch issue with the same problem. I still think he has a hydraulic issue.
FU Tuning
All TSB's listed come up under the same concern\complaint.
As I said before, and this was something I didn’t think of the at first, maybe the slaves\TOB's spec is using are the old known bad units.....
Then it would be a hydro issue, HOWEVER there was a interim change in 2001 (ish) for the pressure plate.
ALSO this is why i posted the "NEW" TSB for out plate bolts, and correct TQ spec. I bleave this was an issue you had.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
spec01 wrote:Compared to other aftermarket manufactures it isn't a joke. Most offer 60 or 90 day warranty. I hate that you feel the way you do...but lets make sure that your reference is contextual. Ultimately we have no control over when you install the parts...
As I have no control over the quality of your parts or how long it takes for them to arrive. Thankfully the clutches I have, have been trouble free while I used them. The same can not be said for the flywheel. the delays in the shipping/delivery of my last clutch are why it went in 3 months after I put the engine back in teh car. It did only show up 2 months after it was ordered and 1 month after the engine was put in. I know that if I had had a problem I would have been told to bad. I have talked to several people who have had issues show up within 1K miles after install, but it had been 6 months since the ordered it.
I no longer have a need for anything better than stock so the next time i replace it, possibly soon to get rid of the damn chatter, I will be getting a LUK to replace it.
2 words... Bully Clutch...
