hey guys im new to this turbo form, however i have been reading trying to educate myself. i am confused i want to set up a turbo sysytem to handle 6- 10 psi. now what would should i use. internal or external wastegate. any help would be great . ant other points that you can give me to help me out would be greatly appreciated, whats good whats not and were i can get this stuff. thanks
The way i understand it external wastegates are
easier to adjust and more reliable. I have
an internal and plan to switch eventually.
internal... up to 10 i would say you'll be good... i would get and internal at like 3 to 5 psi and hten a boost controller to put it at 10... although you might get a bit of boost spike.. but possibly not enough to justify spending 250 on a good wastegate and then prolly another 100 to 200 for addint it to the manifold and making the downpipe work with it.. just my 2 cents
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Open dump rules! External all the way.
O noes!
As long as the turbo/int.wastegate package is designed and sprung decently internal wastegates are fine unless your gonna run 40 psi or something. I've seen 29 psi+ on other cars w/ internal 38mm wastegates w/ no creep or spikes. If you plan on upgrading bigger later external isn't too bad as then you'll already have the wastegate ready for whatever turbo you decide to go with. Plus an open dump is
Or buy internal and use the saved money for something else more worthwhile.
That manifold is fine, but if you want external, your going to have to drill it.
z24 aint afraid of no ecotec
Quote:
Smokey
Monday, July 18, 2005 9:24 PM
Open dump rules! External all the way.
Smokey's posts are always well thought, simple and straight to the point. Amen brother to open dump!
external is more difficult to plumb into the exhaust, internal is easier since its contained in the turbo, but it lacks adjustability.
I plan on going external... cuz yea, dump tube OWNZ
external all the way. im pieceing together my kit also and im buying the same manifold u listed but for the 2200. then i got to get a flange put on. Could an exhaust shop do that?
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
6-10 PSI internal is perfect for you. Unless you know some people who can do welding and custom your exhaust for a external, Theres nuthing wrong with internal. Easier and cheaper by far for low boost applications...dont let these other big shots fool you =p
first thing so i don't forget.. cavi demon be carefull when doing stuff like that at just an exhaust shop.. to keep it from cracking or just breaking off it will have to be tig welded out of stainles or you will be wasteing your money.. trust me on that i know from expierance.. okay doubler.. external is alwayse the best in performance, why it keeps the exhaust flow cleen, and unresticted.. what happens on internal gated turbos is when the gasses pass through the gate they hit the higher speed gasses coming from the turbine and create turbulance and it saps power from the turbo.. thats when the external comes in, it either vents it downstream or just to atm. . and is far more adjustible and reliable(if you get a good one).. so all and all for a cheaper setup there is no reason to go with external and you can still make alot of power.. but if you ever want to go with like a t3/t4 hybrid of some sort, they don't gate internaly so you will have to go the other way, and it is a base for more power anyway, you car is only as fast as your setup. so think about it and if you can aford it go external.. and good luck
r.i.p rotary
^^^^^^yah............. umm.................... right.......
So anyway, people switch to external wastegates to help prevent boost creap from occuring. The openning inside of the external wastegates are horrifically small. They can only let so much by. When you reach the maximum capacity of those tiny holes (ver easy to do, you get the creap. They also suck because if you run lean just one time you risk very bad damage to the turbine housing. They crack between the inlet of the wastegate and the outlet of the turbine like it's nothing... Then you start to have trouble building boost.
Internal wastegates ARE adjustable. All you have to do is extend or shorten the actuator arm. Some turbos have that capability and some done. Any turbo can switch to it though. They can also be adjusted by altering the pressure at the vacuum connection on the wastegate (what boost controllers do) Those can only increase boost from the wastegate's set pressure, they can no reduce it to bellow the set pressure. They do so by bleeding off boost pressure in-line with the wastegate connection so that it take even more pressure to open it.
External wastegates are usually only adjustable by changing out the spring inside. It takes a little more time than just turning a single screw on an internal wastegate. Again, you can also use a boost controller to raise the boost if you wanted to install al low PSI spring for cruising but still be able to kit it up at the flick of a switch.
As 240 said, it is a decent advantage to have the external wastegate because of ehaust flow, but the difference in that case is pretty minimal if you run larger exhaust systems like it is recomended. The advantage is at it's highest when you run a straight dump. See, more and more exhaust flow goes through the turbine as the RPMs increase and the boost builds up, but once the wastegate opens, you have the same amount of exhaust coming out of the turbine, and now the increasing amount of extra exhaust only comes out the wastegate. Basically, you;ve alreadgy got your boost built and the aditional back-pressure no longer hurts you like it would while spooling. It still isn't the best, but it is nowhere near as bad as backpressure while you are building boost.
Pretty much... if you chose a big turbo....... you can get away with an internal wastegate, if you use a smaller turbo, you will get boost creap. Go external if you can anyway just because of the extra reliability. Dump it if you can because of the extra performance.
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us and our novels.. ha we spent way to much time playing with turbo's
r.i.p rotary
240 your azz!!! wrote:us and our novels.. ha we spent way to much time playing with turbo's
Haha, very true!
I'd go with the external wastegate, but it's completely up to you!
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