hey in about two months i should have enough to get a stage 1 rsm supercharger runnings 6psi and giving up 60hp. My question is whats everyones opinions on the stage one supercharger because i know most people get the gm s/c that i havent found on a site for purchase. This looks more like a procharger so is it one and to anyone with this same s/c kit, is the spoiling loud or is it quiet? thanks
The RSM makes more power than the Gm
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
RSM should make more peak power, sounds awesome but costs more. The GM SC makes really good power too but costs less. About $2000+ install and Bob's your uncle.
I have the RSM one on my Ecotec. I really wanted the supposed kit GM was gonna have out but I got tired of waiting. I am pretty pleased with the kit, a nice performance boost but have yet to dyno and 1/4 it.
Do a search, there is tons of info on here about these two kits.
2.2L Ecotec - Vortec Supercharged
i have the rsm stage 1 on my 96 z. its insane...many people are amazed by how good it sounds. very loud, and the blow off valve, well lets just say people WILL hear you comin. i had the charger, injectors, and a spec stage 3 clutch and i got a 14.2 out of it. if i could of gotten it to hook up off the line it mighta went 13's. i was pulling horrible 2.2 60 foot times. but as far as the charger kit, its awesome...and not many people can say that they are running a vortech unit on their j-body....haha... but dont get me wrong, the gm kit is a very good kit also.
Wow, if I ever swap over to the 2.4 this will be the kit I get
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD
AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
I like mine gets lots of attention because you really can hear the supercharger howl.But after that all you get to see is my tail pipes
Thats Him Officer The WICKED One.
whats a good site to get the gm supercharger at?
Hey J, you can get the GM charger at GMpartsdirect.com (you have to enter the part number to get the price J) . Anyways the GMcharger and a 50 shot on single nozzle NX will take out any RSM stage one charger anyday.
You can't run a 50 shot of NX on a RSM Vortech charger unless you want burnt pistons because the ambient temperature are SO HOT without an after or intercooler.
You say the stage one gives 60 HP at 6PSI, the GMcharger is an underrated 40HP at 4.5PSI.
The roots charger ADDS displacement acting like an air pump instead of the RSM just adding pressure like an air compressor.
$2000 for the GM charger, $600 for the NX, Hmm what does the RSM stage one cost again? And does it have two different power adders with the second one optional?
I like the sound of a Vortech but I would rather have it driven by the crank belt instead of the cam.
I do have to agree some what with gmfreak on this... i know some one with a GM supercharger on his 2.4L and running 6psi and he beets this one guy with a RSM supercharger on his 2.4L every time... and its not like its too hard either... but both kits have their good's and bad's.... because with the rsm you can add an intercooler but the gm one you cant... but as far as i know there is very little you can do to up your boost levels on the RSM one... where as on the GM one you can get 4 different pulleys that will get you up to the 9-10psi range (granted you need alcohol injection to cool the charge but you can still make more boost)
Well have to disagree with both of you for being so wrong. The vortech has a port right on it for nitrous and you can run a wet shot which you cant do with a GM supercharger. WIth GM you must run a dry shot which we all know is more dangerous. The Vortech does not need an intercooler as it only heats up the air it sucks in by 5-10 degrees, adding an intercooler causes a 1-2 psi drop not to mention adds more weight. The Gm blower loses all efficiency after 6psi, The RSM starts at 6psi and if you want to up the boost all you have to do is spend 30 bucks at autozone and get a goodyear gatorback belt. Or you can have a bigger pulley housing made. The only thing the GM one has going for it is the price other than that theres really not a benefit
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
You can run a wet shot with the M45. Other company's run fuel threw the M45 and warrenty it. So i guess you are wrong then.Other roots type superchargers run wet shots threw the s/c.
Only benifit i know of the Gm s/c is at the very least 5 people with the gm s/c running low 14's (bolt on's and 6psi)vs' the few people in 4 +years running low 14's on a rsm 2.4l set up. My buddy(chris tatesh) ran a 14.0' on the stock pulley and bolt ons and the s/c has been out half the time the rsm set up has.
You can run a dry shot threw the gm s/c too, Lowpro did it and ran 270whp and a 13.1. But he did all the work himself and didnt have a fancy hotel to stay complaments of the company he bought it from.
Like stated b4, each kit has it's up's and down. It all depends on the path u want to take with your boosted car and the $ u want to spend. In the end it is still a boosted economy@!#$box.
I have to agree with you Jake, you can run a wet shot through the supercharger.
Why do you disagree Rodimus, I mean the M45 internals would benefit from these chemicals.
The nitrous would cool down the rotors inside the casting and by the time it would reach the pistons, only 90% of the juice would be utilize because of the rotors assorbing some of the charge. Thus dramatically dropping temperatures inside the roots charger and its manifold casting ( where it needs to be cooled ); AND at the same time getting the exlposive heat in the combustion chambers but at a safe level.
The only thing I see the fuel doing besides leveling out the air/fuel ratio to a safe level is actually acting like a lubricant for the rotors inside the the GMCharger. I see it hurting anything.
If you still believe you can't run a wet shot through the GMCharger, just fork over a couple of more bills on top of the standard 6 for the NX Single Nozzles and run a Pirahna Direct port tapped into the charger's manifold casting.
On the 5-10 degrees heat rise on the Vortech, I got to call bull*&^t on that.
If you call Vortech Tech department, they even admit that there Compressors do give a cooler discharge than turbos but it will run hot without an aftercooler and on a typical V-8 you'll only gain anywhere from 80HP to 100HP at safe boost. My buddies and I have installed two Vortech kits, one on a 2001 Mustang GT (SQ-trim) and another on a 1997 Z28 Camaro (S-trim) WITHOUT VORTECH AFTERCOOLERS. And they run @!#$ing hot after a quarter mile pass, so hot you can't even touch the intake charge tube with your hands. They both regretted not forking over the extra $1500 for the aftercoolers. We never had intake temperature guages but they had to around 180 degrees which is a big departure from 120 degrees.
The Mustang GT did get to get dynoed and it was cool to see on the 2nd and 3rd consecutive pull the horsepower kept dropping because of the heat build up simulating a quarter mile pass.
Then there is no inter or aftercooler availble from RSM, I don't care about pressure drop when my intake charge runs 50 degrees cooler.
I like the RSM's kit, there is nothing like the sound of a Vortech compressor whine but the extra money saved with going from GMcharger you could get your head ported and that will turn your 2.4L into whole different animal.
The RSM kits are just plain pricey, its a good tool to get the goal you want, some people would rather pay half that for a different tool that delivers the same goal.
Running fuel through an M45 will erode the teflon off the blades in no time and is a bad idea, several have done this and had problems. Running a wet shot would be very harmful to the m45.
As for intake temputure its not a concern to me as I have a low cost solution for that.
http://www.cryo2.com (this will also work with the M45 and virtually any other application) The Vortech kits that are made by Vortech specifically generally use a blower that is too small for the application therefore they need more revs to make boost. The more revs the hotter the charge, RSM uses bigger blowers for the application than what vortech does therefore thier kits run lower revs with a cooler intake charge.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
sorry to burst your bubble Rodimus Prime, but that cryo2 thing does absolutely nothing for the GM supercharger only way to cool the charge of the GM supercharger is a Alcohol or water injection, which actually works as good if not better then an intercooler (just cost more when you have to fill the tank) ... And although i love the RSM kit... personally i have seen a GM supercharger blow away a RSM one multiple times... so it wasn't just luck... and that was at 6psi on the GM one.... so i don't know how you can say the RSM is better... in my opinion no kit is better then the other... its just personal preference.
The cry o2 system has an 3 inch intake tube you put that in line before the TB and you throwing 50 degrees colder air into the engine effectively doing what an incooler does except better and with no pressure drop, and no damage to the blades in the charger
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I love the sound mine makes
That makes it worth it lol. But Rodimus, whats this about a gator belt?? Im lookin at more boost currently.
<img src="http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/831000-831999/831395_11_full.jpg">
RSM's kit runs so cool because we barely use the potential of the Vortech. Comparing our kit to Vortech on other vehicles is not entirely relevant. You can run the car as hard as you like. I can hold the charge pipe with no complaint. Even with my office pussy hands.
Drag times are certainly a good indicator.....But...
In drag racing, you allow the charger to cool between runs. Once the heaton is heat soaked, your times will drop and the likelyhood of knock increase...Eaton will and has admitted that they are right on the edge of knock in the first place. On the street or road coarse, you don't have the opportunity to let things cool down.
I would never run nitrous through my eaton. Or anything else for that matter. Overdriving the unit is also a mistake without proper attention. Especially the m45 on the 2.4
3500 bucks us is not pricey for a complete blower kit.
I'm not saying it's not a lot of money.
Do a comparison of complete kits including reflash. It doesn't matter what car.
If you are making this judgement by comparing the GM kit, you would find that they are flogging it off. It was meant to be far more aggresively priced. And was in the first place. I gaurantee it was a financial failure for GM. If I'm not mistaken, it isn't being produced anymore. I wish we could make enough money to justify a tax write-off of that magnitude.
And consider that they only offered the kit for a 1.5 year span of cars. Had they developed the kit for all 2.4's, the price woudl have been even higher.
The GM kit is an enigma of sorts and used to be much more it is so cheap because GM is selling it at a loss. No good business minded company would do such a thing, then again we are talking about GM here who often misses the boat when it comes to giving the public what it wants.
Ben the Dayco that comes with the kit does slip, even with the tensioner down all the way tight I'm getting 5psi now and theres a black dust beneath the belt. Several have noticed an increase in boost by switching to the good year gatorback belt, only problem is the eco kit uses a 6 rib 33.5 inch belt and gatorback only comes in a 33 and 34 inch belt, I'm going to give it a try but I dont have the money to order the belt and I cannot seem to find anyplace that can order the belt. Nice Times btw I wish I fared that well I went out last friday and just spun the hell out of first and second gear and couldnt trap any better than 86.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
GM does not miss the boat when it comes to deliver what the public wants, it just wipe out its 2.4L campaign because after everything was said and done, GM wants to globalize their 4cylinder strategy with the intriduction of the Ecotec engine on ALL GM brands.
If you say that the reason they'd sell their 2.4L kits for a demeaning price, why is the Ecotec 2.0L M62 Supercharged Crate Engine selling for $3800.
Thats a complete engine (with forged internals) and a 62 cubic inch roots charger with intercooler capabiltys, all for what a RSM stage one kit cost. Hmm, which one would people choose.
I have a built Ecotec engine right now that I spent way to much money on, I can buy the crate engine and pull my current engine out, and just drop the factory built crate engine in to thrash on, all for $3800. While still having a stout back up engine available.
Oh, and on the nitrous through the M45 Matt, like I said you can tap in 4 pirahna NX nozzles AFTER the rotors to give a direct port set up if the rotors do damage with nitrous.
I like the RSM chargers but its just not cost effecient in my opinion, and I don't blame them for selling them that much. I mean the damn G-trim Vortech compressor alone runs like $1800 and the S-trim compressor runs something $2200 alone. RSM got to eat too but those expensive head units are helping them. If you want the cool factor at the car show or the local speed shop, the RSM kit has the sight and sounds of what you need.
My approach is a no frills attempt to get decent horsepower while still having enough time, energy, and funds to keep my car consistent when the s*&t hits the fan.
That engine isnt complete your forgetting the fact you need to buy an alternator, belts, pulleys, hoses, not to mention it comes with nothing at all to run it so you need to go get a redline PCM before its all said and done its easily 5000 or more not to mention the cost of doing a motor swap,
I'm confident after some mods to accommodate the charger a little better I'll have no problem putting down 220whp or more which is far more than what a cobalt ss dynos
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
