Opinion: Should I go with SAFC? - Boost Forum
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I have an 02 Z24. It's got 45000 miles on it. I'm going turbo, intercooled. I'm planning on getting either a cartech, rk sport, or vortech RRFPR, comments on those if you've used either. I also have a questoin. Do I have to have an FMU if I get a SAFC? Also, I plan on getting rc injectors, and I'm really debating on what ones I should get. I'm going to run like 10-15 lbs intercooled at first before I lower compression. Constructive comments and opinions are welcome. Thanks for your input and reading a long post.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
You'll never get 10-15lbs on a stock engine first off.
People run an FMU and the SAFC all the time. They use the SAFC to fine tune the fuel at the RPM points. I would get the Cartech, simply because if one setting is too much fuel, or too little, you can just change a screw and get the pressure you need, instead of buying @!#$loads of disc packs.
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I have a set of rc 550 injectors if you would like hit me up. I also am using a cartech fmu safc2 and innovate's wideband system, but im only running like 7 or 8 psi.
Hey, thanks for the response. Can I just get a SAFC w/o having to get an FMU? Why can't I get 10 lbs? I'm going to be intercooled with all the fuel I need. The only thing I have to worry about is the internals, and from what I've learned so far is that the internals would hold up at 15 lbs with my small td04(I think). Correct me if I'm wrong, I would like to learn accurate info. On my small turbo 15 lbs isnt that much. I'll have to look into what the engine can hold in the way of hp I guess. I thought the internals were good up to like 280.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
No you need a safc with the fmu, the fmu is so you have enough fuel the afc is so you can fne tune the fuel curve. From what I learned the motor might hold 10 psi. Guess on tunning and luck.
Thanks, maybe I'll just play it safe and run like 8 psi. Good responses, thanks for the feedback. Now for the hard part, piping O_o.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
BTW - if I go non-intercooled, I'm planning on running 6psi. Anyone have good luck with that? I'm only going to be non-intercooled for a short time though if I do go that way.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
go intercooled and run 6 or 7 lbs with an FMU.
the safc would be good for your larger injectors
FMU's are not recommended for anything higher then 9lbs of boost.
really, the chances are you'll clip those injectors before you even get up to 15lbs of boost. (using the FMU)
I would also suggest upgrading your fuel pump.
<a href="http/www.cardomain.com/id/fireside">stevefire23</a>
you need to run some sort of timing retard if you plan on 10 to 15 psi. and yes you can do it on a stock motor.. You don't need a fmu for anything above 10. What you will need is a fuel pump, bigger injectors. 440's or higher, the safc, and a reflashed pcm, or a msd dis 2 programmable ignition to control the timing. for 6 to 7 psi a fmu will be ok with some 310 cc and up injectors i would say. do not run the fmu and a safc that is pointless. read up on how the safc works. if you have big ass injectors, it can all be controlled with that unit itself. not that and a fmu. but don't forget about the pump and timing also if you plan on going higher . take advantage of having a 00+ platform and get that computer reflashed. Thats what i did.
I don't think i missed anything.
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Rush Racing
http://www.gettherush.com/
man do i feel like a newbie...at least a boost newbie...what the heck is a SAFC??
^ my first love ^
~makin people look silly is the most important thing in life :o)
SAFC >>allows you to alter the stock fuel curve at eight user defined RPM's, then it fills in the space in between your points. The Super AFC accomplishes this feat by filtering the voltage from the stock MAP sensor, then sending the "modified" signal to the PCM. Using this method you can modify the fuel curve by +/- 50%. This basically means that you can add fuel until your injectors reach 100% duty cycle, or subtract fuel until you blow your motor. This is the reason that A'PEXi stresses that this system should only be installed and tuned by an authorized dealer. This is no "all show" deal. This is a real tuning tool. taken from N Y J Bodies website.
Quote:
why don't u need an FMU for higher then 10psi?
You can use one. Depends on whether we are talking about an adjustable fmu or a set disk one. I just don't think they are a good tuning method. I had the billet cartech 2025 fmu and after reading the directions decided to not put it on my car. Just my opinion but i wouldn't tune above 10psi with a fmu. Electronic devises are much more accurate and you have more control.
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Rush Racing
http://www.gettherush.com/
^^^^^^ because they raise the fuel pressure based on boost pressure. If you start putting +150psi through your fuel lines daily, bad things are going to happen very soon. People have pulled off boost that high on stock internals, it is all in tuning. If you want to run 10 psi, go ahead and do it. Make sure you do it right. You want to replace you fuel pump and add much larger injectors as well as the FMU anf S-afc. It also is not a very good idea to run 10psi daily unless you have timing retard in relation to boost. I wouldn't run more than 7psi without that on stock internals. No matter what though, intercool it. There is no excuse not to intercool a J-body if it is going to be turbocharged. You can get a stock intecooler from another car at a junkyard for less than $50. Anything is good as long as it can cool the air. If you don't want to buyy all of that, there are other paths to go. The easiest is going to be simply running less boost and no timing retard. Something else you may want to look at would be an additional injector controller. You could also go stand-alone, but I doubt you would fork out the money for that if you don't even want to pay for an intercooler. Megasquirt may be up your alley.
Cardomain|
Myspace
Shifted (KickAzz) wrote:You'll never get 10-15lbs on a stock engine first off.
People run an FMU and the SAFC all the time. They use the SAFC to fine tune the fuel at the RPM points. I would get the Cartech, simply because if one setting is too much fuel, or too little, you can just change a screw and get the pressure you need, instead of buying @!#$loads of disc packs.
first off you can run 10-15lbs on a stock engine i did it with a 2200 for about 6 months then i bumped it up to 18 psi for a bout 2 more months the piston #2 ring-land gave out and that wasn't because of my tuning either it was because of CYLINDER PRESSURE.
this it what is im running Oh yeah @ 18psi i was running a 10:1 afr
T3 /O4E 50 trim .48 ar
tial 38mm wastegate
custom log mani
bosch 440cc injectors
cartech FMU
walbro 255lph pump
custom intercooler
2.5 inch downpipe.. to 2.5 exhaust
turbo XS bov
Shifted (KickAzz) you can run a bit higher boost with these motors with the proper tuning
Oh yeah shifted(kickazz) what kind of boost are you running with that plastic TURBO/BLOWER you have LOL!
laters, dustin
You have bass I have BOOST
listening
good points josh. alot of what i said though. lol. I didn't think it would be a good idea to run the fmu with a safc but now i am considering otherwise since i still have it. I may just try it and see what happens.
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Rush Racing
http://www.gettherush.com/
I'm still getting an intercooler no matter what. I just want to hook up what I have and start running a small amount of boost as a starting point. I think I'll just go with an intercooler straight off the bat. Question, I dont HAVE to have a fmu if I go with an safc right? And I can use an fmu with out a safc at or below 7 lbs, right? But if I go above 7 psi I would need the safc and timing retarded right? Sorry if this is wrong, it's what I've gathered from the above posts. Thanks for all the help, I'm going to need it to tackle this job. BTW - if anyone is interrested, I have a tdo4 and a manifold already. So i'm going to shoot for a summer completion. I'll let you all know how it comes out when I get it dyno tuned. If money holds out.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
I dont HAVE to have a fmu if I go with an safc right?
correct just bigger injectors and a fuel pump.
And I can use an fmu with out a safc at or below 7 lbs, right?
correct but still reccomend injectors and a pump. lol
But if I go above 7 psi I would need the safc and timing retarded right?
sort of. if you go above 7 psi you will need timing retard of some sort whether it be a reflashed stock ecu or msd or emanage .
The safc is just for fuel and is a good devise for 10psi and up or any amount of boost . but make sure you get big enough injectors and upgrade pump for this setup also.
your stock pump will be ok for 7psi I would think. ITs up to you though. To me the nice thing about the safc is the ability to get big ass injectors and be able to cut them at idle so you aren't running rich as hell. And then you still have alot of adjustability points to work with. Hope i helped.
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Rush Racing
http://www.gettherush.com/
You have been an enormous help. I am in very much appreciative. That has been on my mind for for the longest time and im glad I could get it answered. Thanks again for the help.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
now i am having problems with the timing retard... at what psi does everyone think u need timing retard?
I personally have a fully built engine coming my way. The head is getting finished very soon. I wanted to run 15 psi but learned about timing retard.. I heard the only was is some sort of MSD or emanage... emanage + laptop can get real expensive (1 grand at least) and just put down 3k for the engine... so money is limited. I was talkin to shifted and he showed me a MSD unit but told me it would be worthless over 10 psi. Timing retarding is something that is not brought up all to often in teh boost forum so i was wondering if it was even gonna be necessary.. Who here has used something to retard timing above 10 psi? What did u use? Thanks!
http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
From what they said above you should start at like 10 psi. Sound right?
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
How long have they been on that boost, with no timing mods?
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems..."
-Homer
My SRT-4
Mopar Stage 2, Mopar BOV, Mopar STS, Booger Bushings, B&B Turbo Back 3" Exhaust, Greddy Turbo Timer, Greddy Profec B Spec 2 EBC, Injen Intake, Rage Wastegate Actuator, Zex Inercooler Sprayer, ES Motor Mount Inserts, $20 Oil Catch Can, MSD Ignition Coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition wires, NGK Spark Plugs, SRT A/F Ratio Gauge by AutoMeter in a custom pod
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