Alright here's the deal.
We made lots of mistakes building it. Besides it being a 2200.
First mistake, buying from Exploited racing. The guy gave us no help at all, and took forever to get us anything. Got us a cheap BOV, and basically, wouldn't reply or answer the phone to help us out after the first call.
Otherwise Stock 2200 car. Using a Rising Rate Fuel pressure regulator by Cartech Racing. (see
http://www.cartech.net) The stock fuel pump is good enough for the little boost we want to run. (4-5 psi) Car is Daily driven, well will be.
Everythings' together. We used an Autometer Oil pressure gauge, the appropriate oil and return lines. I myself, did the exhaust up to the catalytic converter so far. (magnaflow 2.5" cat recommended by an Ex member) The car currently has 2 step colder spark plugs. Gapped only to .035. I suspected it blowing the spark out.
It has some Turbo XS BOV (cheap unit, barely makes noise DAMNIT... lol gets the job done however). A Tial 38mm Wastegate and the Dual stage boost controller is not hooked up.
Basically. We had everything jet-coated. The exhaust manifold, is turning RED. Glowing. Yes Glowing. Air fuel ratio according to the Modis Scanner, is reading 12.3 which from what i've read and experienced, is pretty close to optimal for a boosted car.
The car has a 5.9 lb Wastegate spring. It builds 8psi of boost at WOT. the car, is Slower than it was.
The Rising rate fuel pressure regulator is completely adjustable.. I've done everything by the book ...Other than intercooling that is. But even still, should be enough.
Intake air temps at idle with engine warm is reading 170* which IMO is pretty freakin hott.
Here's a pic. (see below)
Whats my problems, what Am I overlooking right here? The car falls on it's face past 4000 rpms. It still even up to that point feels sluggish. Throttle response at part throttle is better than WOT. when it shifts gears, it popps like it's blowing out spark and than magically saying "oh snap fire" Boost holds steady, as there are No exhaust leaks.
Should I Induce a "leak" and see how it does than? ANY and all Recommendations will be taken seriously. (other than swapping engines or removing the turbo system)
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
Ah, And Low or High impedence injectors, I'm stepping that way that it's just running too damned lean.
I saw a fellow member bought 370cc injectors for his 2002 model (which is what my buddy's is) and he used RC injectors, but I do not know which impedence, I guess I could measure right?
Has anyone used an Inline fuel pump on their 02? How'd they set it up all of the lines in the back are nylon, I could put it in line in the front, however, that kinda defeats the purpose right?
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
What map sensor is in there?
actually i have an msd inline on my 01 2200 and its before the fuel rail in the engine bay
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
.JerseyKid. wrote:What map sensor is in there?
Stock map sensor. No AFC, only the Rising rate Fuel pressure regulator. (FMU for short)
He just ordered the 370 cc injectors from RC and a holley in line fuel pump from summit.. I'll update more if that was the problem....
It's not my car, just a car i helped build. well I guess you could say I built it but whatever since he's turning to me for all the answers for everything.
Curtis (turboZ24.com) said it's too lean. No matter what the air fuel ratio is, if the manifolds were glowing, it's too lean. So we'll see from here.
I also couldn't find a screw in Intake sensor until the other day, Found one from a diesel. It's a plug in unit from a 96 GMC C3500 with the 6.5 Diesel and is working perfectly fine, i removed the sender from the boost line, and it reads ambient temperature correctly.
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
what size turbo is it? if its really small, probably is why it feels like its falling flat on its face..
also is it an auto? i have a problem with my torque converter, i'm pretty sure its going to go out, since when it downshifts into high rpms it feels like its just free revving and not going anyway.
also what injectors are being used right now?
The turbo, honestly, I had it written down somewhere. It is the kit designed by Exploited racing (mistake like i said) From what i remember the turbine section is a T3 .48 Stage 2, and the compressor is a T3 .42 A/r.
We just ordered an inline fuel pump by Holley, and tomorrow he'll be ordering 370cc fuel injectors from RC racing. Right now, the injectors are stock. (another mistake obviously)
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
It sounds like your injectors are falling on their ars3! Once more proper fuel gets served into the engine it'll richen up the mixture! Are you not using an FMU? There seems like alot of shortcuts on important things and alot of money spent on things not needed so soon (i.e - jet coating things)
But, if you want to un-install the kit, i'll surely buy it off of you in about a month! ! ! 1
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
91BerettaGT wrote:
Basically. We had everything jet-coated. The exhaust manifold, is turning RED. Glowing. Yes Glowing. Air fuel ratio according to the Modis Scanner, is reading 12.3 which from what i've read and experienced, is pretty close to optimal for a boosted car
Is that Modis Scanner reading the stock narrowband o2 sensor or a wideband o2?
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
It's reading the stock sensors.
The FMU is the Cartech Unit. It raises fuel pressure based on the a certain ratio (see FAQ above this thread)
Cobra's are Supercharged. LOL. This, Tells me there's either a restriction or lean or a clogged cat but it's new thanks to DJ. lol
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
Fuel Sticky... wrote:
Yes, the FMU goes after the FPR. (Ironically, in some fuel systems, the FMU completely replaces the FPR, this happens in the Hahn turbo kits for the Eco, but only because the FMU they picked also has a boost onset pressure, which regulates the pressure when you are not in boost as well). The FMU takes over after the FPR is fully open (in boost, you are making positive pressure, the FPR is maxed out at 0 PSI), and increases fuel beyond that, usually in a ratio with boost.
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
91BerettaGT wrote:It's reading the stock sensors.
The FMU is the Cartech Unit. It raises fuel pressure based on the a certain ratio (see FAQ above this thread)
Cobra's are Supercharged. LOL. This, Tells me there's either a restriction or lean or a clogged cat but it's new thanks to DJ. lol
I know what a FMU does...
Anyways, you would need to check the plugs and/or put the car on a dyno with a wideband o2 to really see what the air fuel is.
Cobras are supercharged, but we tune the turbo and supercharged Cobras with the same air/fuel.
BTW,
The Cobra that I was talking about was twin turbo.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
Well for sure put a real wideband in there. Never try to take a accurate AFR reading off the stock O2 sensors. Just not meant for it. They are designed for NOTHING BUT HITTING 14.7:1. Get that reading from a different spot and a solo sensor.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Your buddy probably needs to invest in a set of injectors just to be safe.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
Adler wrote:Your buddy probably needs to invest in a set of injectors just to be safe.
As stated above, he ordered a set of 370cc Injectors from RC Injectors this morning.
When everything gets here, I'll let you guys know.
As for the wide band. Any recommendations? I know there are some cheaper kits out there where it's simply just a wide band and a digital monitor.
Thanks!
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
Just out of curiosity, why did you plumb the wastegate into the downpipe rather than into the manifold itself?
And yeah, the stock injectors are only 14lb so the new set should cure your problems. I'm actually looking into installing a set of Ford Blue Tops (24lb) in the next week or so.
another question. on the tial waste gates is the vaccum line going to the port on the top or underneath on the side? i dont know which to hook mine up to?
farmerz24
Agent Omega wrote:Just out of curiosity, why did you plumb the wastegate into the downpipe rather than into the manifold itself?
And yeah, the stock injectors are only 14lb so the new set should cure your problems. I'm actually looking into installing a set of Ford Blue Tops (24lb) in the next week or so.
?? The wastegate either gets dumped to atmosphere, or to a downpipe. It would never ever get dumped back into an exhaust manifold, that would entirely defeate it's "boost controller" feature. Maybe you mean "why did i dump it to the downpipe instead of to atmosphere? Because of emissions testing in NJ thats why, an open pipe, well, they dont' like that very much..
Well, this is no longer my problem. His parents think I don't know what i'm doing so they sent it to a shop. When they rape him for the injectors, fuel pump and labor (because they canceled the orders on the Fuel pump and injectors) They'll say "hey he was right we should've did it this way" he also convinced them if they aren't gonna have the patience to wait for me to do it the right way, than they can pay the performance shop to do it. and they said they will i was in utter shock.
Anyway, FarmerZ24, (i believe i bought my 3400 Exhaust flanges from you for my headers
lol) Anyway, the line going from the turbo, goes to the side entrance of the wastegate. If you intend on hooking up and installing a boost controller, Follow the instructions that came with the Wastegate, they suggest Using a T-vacuum fitting, and than connecting the T to the boost controller, than the other port of the controller to the top of the external wastegate. This minimizes Boost creep so commonly known as "lag" Just do not forget the Vent, a Vent can be made by using another Vacuum T in the line going from the boost controller to the wastegate top.
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
When I know , you'll know.
But all i know, is that it's not my problem anymore and i'm completely satisfied with it that way lol.
I just can't wait to see his dad's face when he hears the words from the place that "an intercooler, is not going to fix his issues" His dad thinks because it doesn't have an intercooler, thats the problem. i'm like wow you're an idiot.
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
am I the only one who notices NO intercooler?
I would hope that at 8 psi, he has injectors and a front mount. those are the 2 biggest problems I see
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
91BerettaGT wrote:When I know , you'll know. But all i know, is that it's not my problem anymore and i'm completely satisfied with it that way lol.
I just can't wait to see his dad's face when he hears the words from the place that "an intercooler, is not going to fix his issues" His dad thinks because it doesn't have an intercooler, thats the problem. i'm like wow you're an idiot.
No, but an Intercooler and injectors are his 2 BIGGEST priorities.
I wouldnt run ANY car on more then 4 psi without SOME sort of IC... thats just plain stupidity
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Uh ok, there's plenty of people running turbo's without intercoolers. Yes, it will perform better, But seriously. It's not a necessity.
The fuel, however, is.
He just wanted to add a Little fun, It wasn't supposed to be 8psi he ordered the wrong wastegate spring and it's buidling 8. We're gonna install a few vents in order lower the boost pressure. But thats after it's tuned to it's best abilities.
like stated, it's out of my hands right now.
Intake temps under boost barely reach 112* Honestly, THAT IS NOT BAD. I've seen after intercooled temps higher than that.
Rob
'91 Beretta, 3400 and 5 speed swapped
14.553 @ 94.01 mph.
When I looked at that pic real quick this morning it looked like you went IN from the downpipe, instead of from the manifold. My bad, man--all's well
