So i finally got my car on the dyno the other day to see what kinda power numbers i was making, and dont get me wrong, they were decent, but theres so much more waiting to be unlocked. i made 243 hp and 278 torque to the front wheels. After the first pull we looked at the fuel map and it kinda confused us. All the way across the board i was running 14.7-1 a/f. And being all turbo guys you know thats a tad bit lean lol. Well anyway we figured out the problem. When the car comes under boost the port fueler system is opening up the aux injectors and as they open up the factory ecu see's the extra fuel and backs off the those injectors, so basically its running the same amount of fuel as it began with.....doesnt that suck. This week im getting the software from hahn so we can adjust the port fueler system. I talked with them and they said its basically and x and y axis with the rpm ranges so where gonna put it back on the dyno and just start dumping more fuel through the aux injectors at each range and see what we can come up with. Thats the only route we've come up with so far, so if anyone has any suggestions let me know. Oh by the way the dyno pull was at 16psi.
if they were measureing the A/F ratio after the cat , the A/F readings are false
nice #'s
true, no cat on my car though
try my VSS trick. Seems to work really good.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
whats the vss trick gonna do as far making the 4 stock fuel injectors stop backing out?
The Eco ECU has no open loop programming built into it that we can find, at least not for acceleration. When you cut out the VSS signal it makes the computer kick into open loop under WOT conditions like a normal car would. This allows you to get down to your 12:1-12.5:1 AF that you desire. That's how we did mine at least and it's been working just fine.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Hmm sounds like a plan then, i'll try tomorrow one dyno run like that, and if it works good i'll let you know, i've already got the port fueler software on the way it'll be here in the morning so we can make other corrections if need be.
how do u do the vss trick? just wondering cuz i heard that 03 and up cavs have the fuel problem like his. is there a writeup or somthing some were?
We will not tell you how to do the VSS trick. If you need to do it you will know how.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Quote:
So i finally got my car on the dyno the other day to see what kinda power numbers i was making, and dont get me wrong, they were decent, but theres so much more waiting to be unlocked. i made 243 hp and 278 torque to the front wheels. After the first pull we looked at the fuel map and it kinda confused us. All the way across the board i was running 14.7-1 a/f. And being all turbo guys you know thats a tad bit lean lol. Well anyway we figured out the problem. When the car comes under boost the port fueler system is opening up the aux injectors and as they open up the factory ecu see's the extra fuel and backs off the those injectors, so basically its running the same amount of fuel as it began with.....doesnt that suck. This week im getting the software from hahn so we can adjust the port fueler system. I talked with them and they said its basically and x and y axis with the rpm ranges so where gonna put it back on the dyno and just start dumping more fuel through the aux injectors at each range and see what we can come up with. Thats the only route we've come up with so far, so if anyone has any suggestions let me know. Oh by the way the dyno pull was at 16psi
somethings not right. since u put the stock injectors back in and the port fueler i think are 550cc? (someone correct me if im wrong) and it should have come pre calibrated so when that does happen, there isnt a problem.
also, those numbers seem kinda low at the wheels for 16psi on the super 16g. (not trying to be disrespectful so please dont take it that way). theres gotta be something else...
what are you running for valve train upgrades? the stock eco springs cant handle too much psi.
im interested to see whats happening.
That's what I thought John. The Portfueler should be adding enough fuel even without the help of the factory injectors. More than enough even.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:We will not tell you how to do the VSS trick. If you need to do it you will know how.
God I hate hearing people say that. It is soo not true.
i was once told like this, if you can really needed it you wouldnt have to ask how to do it, i dont mean to be an a hole, i just dont wanna be the guy responsible for the j@#$$ss who decided to take his cav/sunfire up to 130+ cause he thinks he's fast. Now lets not let my port fueler discussion turn into a long argument about the vss mod, im gonna try it tomorrow and see if it brings my a/f where i need it to be and i'll post and let everyone know the numbers and what not.
Someone wrote:Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:We will not tell you how to do the VSS trick. If you need to do it you will know how.
God I hate hearing people say that. It is soo not true.
If you don't like hearing it get people to stop asking. PERIOD. Until then do what those of us who know how to do it do...ignore the question.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Quote:
All the way across the board i was running 14.7-1 a/f. And being all turbo guys you know thats a tad bit lean lol. Well anyway we figured out the problem.
When the car comes under boost the port fueler system is opening up the aux injectors and as they open up the factory ecu see's the extra fuel and backs off the those injectors, so basically its running the same amount of fuel as it began with.....doesnt that suck.
wow that sounds like what me and my lackies have been trying to pound into everyone from the beginning... and why we swear up and down that megasquirt (or any other stand alone fuel system) is the only way to get around it.
the 04 and up and possibly the 03 (still for debate) ecu's constantly adapt to 14.7 : 1 a/f secondary injection doesn't work the ecu is a bitch
megasquirt completely REMOVES THE ECU FROM INJECTION CALCULATIONS ALL TOGETHER which is why its so great.. it gives you complete control over your air/fuel ratio and the computer can't say a damn thing about it
and the best part is, your speedo still works, tach still works, everything will still function the way it is
no more pesky rev or speed limiters (altho sometimes this is a BAD thing.. especially with over revving an engine to destruction..even the eco has limits)
and its cheap
some people dont like megasquirt for some reason, but I think its the best system out there for fuel management for our cars (ecotecs spcifically)
its cheap, it works, its upgradable and does almost anything you want it to (ignition, shift lights, boost controller, wide band, you name it).
Its the best system hands down, I don't care what anyone says.
The only thing that could beat it is full stand alone which costs roughly 3 times as much
and btw, no disrespect to Hahn racecraft, they make excellent products, and the manifold is a gorgeous peice.. but secondary injection just does not work with the ecotec ecu'.. or at least they haven't found a way around it yet.
Well they obviously HAVE found a way around it considering that's the exact thing they use on their drag car and it runs nice and fat. Might just be something with his setup...or it could be something that I just thought of as I was typing this...time for another email to Hahn.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
i asked about the vss mod just because i knew about the 04 and up ecotec pulling injector pulsewidth and running a 14.7:1 air fuel ratio even with an adjustable fmu set at the most pressure. i didnt wanna go 130 on a busy highway but i guess lets just end it right here. thanks!
Sorry man but I don't tell ANYONE without proof.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
no i know i wouldnt tell anyone either but then again im am trying to learn before i do my turbo setup because my car is used everyday and i want to make everything go smooth as possible, and if i have to use it i can to make the car run right and not lean out and maybe not have if running for a long while. but dont worry if i do need to do that ill make sure i have proof for everyone to see.
Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:Well they obviously HAVE found a way around it considering that's the exact thing they use on their drag car and it runs nice and fat. Might just be something with his setup...or it could be something that I just thought of as I was typing this...time for another email to Hahn.
something to note: their drag car is a 03... which leads me to believe that they might have gotten lucky with the ecu...
I'm not sure their system is effective on a 04...
15.574 @ 89 mph stock
yea i had the same problem with my 04 cavalier. what i had to do is go and get my ecu re flashed to an 02 now 11.5 across the board!
^^^damn I'm surprised nobody thought about this before
15.574 @ 89 mph stock
Dante: that has been thought of numerous times actually. My only concern with doing that is the fact that you also have to get the BCM flashed to a 02 then and make the VINs match still.
Like I said in my last post, I think I might have found a reason it's not working quite right.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
so would reflashing ur ecu to an 02 just be more trouble then? cuz i was also thinking about if that would work also. were could i do this?
Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:Dante: that has been thought of numerous times actually. My only concern with doing that is the fact that you also have to get the BCM flashed to a 02 then and make the VINs match still.
Like I said in my last post, I think I might have found a reason it's not working quite right.
Looking forward to your findings
15.574 @ 89 mph stock
