What else do i need to install my system? - Audio & Electronics Forum

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What else do i need to install my system?
Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:50 AM
Alright guys...well i bought all my hardware...consisting of

Alpine Type S 6x9 Speakers
Phoenix Gold Xenon X100.4 Four Channel Amplifier
Phoenix Gold Xenon X600.1 Monoblock Amplifier
Phoenix Gold Xenon X6.5 Components/Passive Crossover Network
Phoenix Gold Xenon 12" D4 Subwoofers (two)

This will by my first system, and i've never done an install before, and i want to order everything i need. My question is what else do i need? Should i get 2 caps (and do these wire up before the amps?) I only need 1 amp wirring kit...correct? Which one do you guys recommend? Should i just get the most expensive one? I wanted to order from here

http://www.cardomain.com/shop?ref=nav1

so i was thinking of ordering a cap or 2. Also, what wirring do i need? there are so many available and i'm so confused as to what i need. Please let me know.

Thanks guys



Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:46 AM
Have you decided on what type of box your gonna buy or are you building your own? also the most expensive one (refering to your amp kit) doesnt mean its always going to be the best. My amp kit works well. I cant remember what kit it is cause i installed it 3 years ago but hasnt ever let me down. If you want ask around your city either at car meets or even at the car stereo places (the car stereo places usually dont make commission so they wont try talking you into the most expensive one). Which ever one is suggested the most might just be the one you need.
Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:02 AM
since nobody else has said anything let me be the first to point out a few things.

1. the rule is 1 farad per 1000 watts of power, your running 600 watts 1, 1 farad cap will be more than enough, and you may not even need that depending on your electrical system.

2. simply buying the most expensive kit is not the answer, you can throw money at a problem and make it worse.

Here is what i would do, first sit down and figure out how much thump you want, how much you want to spend to get that thump and what you expect it to cost in the long run I.E alternator, battery etc.

Sounds like you've done alot of this already, next the subs you want, sit down and figure out the required airspace for these subs, cavaliers have very limited room in the back, if your running 12s you can squeeze a 40 inch wide box if i remember correctly, if your running a 15 you cant go wider than 36 inches wihtout some serious mods to the trunk, my last sub box was 36"x16.5"x10" these are outside dimensions and is absolutly as big as you will squeeze in the trunk of a cavalier without having to cut the supports for your trunk lid to make room.

now that you've figured out your airspace and needs. lets start planning this out to complete the system. you can do this one of 2 ways.

1. you can run an 8ga power wire to the 4 channel amp and a 4ga power wire to the mono amp.

2. you can run a 0 or probably a 2 ga power wire to a common fused output in your trunk, then run a power wire to your 4 channel amp, and another one to your mono amp, again 4 ga to the mono and 8ga to the 4 channel should be the smallest sizes that you run.

Wiring gauge such as 4ga is the thickness of the wire, smaller number equals a larger wire.

Now that you've figure that out you must ground BOTH amps to the same spot be it in the trunk or in the car they both need a common ground spot within a few inches of each other and ideally both grounded at the same spot or you will get ground loop noise, which is almost as bad as static.

if you go the route of running 2 seperate wires it will be messy and alot harder to do, if you run one single power wire it will be cleaner and easier to hide.

You will need a sidepost battery adapter which is a thread in replacement for your batteries positive bolt that has an extended pole on top to mount the extra power wires to.

you need at least 2 crimp on ring terminals for each of your power wires, one for the battery or ground side and one for the amp side, if you run a cap you will need 2 more for the positive side.

next you will need at least 25 feet of positive wire to run from the battery to the trunk, this allows you room to route the wire around and under things to hide it very well, which makes for a nice clean install, try to keep the wire in the car as it has less chance of getting damaged.

you will also need at least 4 feet of ground wire, try to keep the ground as close to the amp as possible and mount the amps so they get good airflow, amps get very hot, so sticking them under seats, or behind your rear seat between the back of the box and the seat is a bad idea, they will get hot enough to thermally shut down and ruin your day.

you will also need a fuse holder and fuse for your power wire mounted as close to the battery as physically possible, you will have to cut your power wire at this point and attatch the fuse holder inline, this prevents the wire from shorting out in the car and causing a fire, i prefer agu style fuse holders as they are nice and strong, hold large amp loads and are cheaper than anl, dont get cheap on these parts they will save your car.

If you run one big wire you must buy a fused distribution block, again dont get cheap.

buy wire loom the size of your power wire, 4ga wire will fit in 1/2" wire loom and should be used thruout the engine compartment up to the point the wire goes thru the firewall of the car. thats another good area to cover,

putting the power wire thru the firewall:

First get a coat hanger and some good tape, now lay down on your floor board under the drivers side of the dash, look around with a flashlight for any big rubber opening or boot thats under there, anywhere you think you can pass something thru, you do not want this wire against a metal surface, it will rub thru and ground out to the car and cause all kinds of problems. Now form the coat hanger into a long straight rod with a handle at one end, push this thru the rubber boot in the firewall, you can either wrap the end of the coat hanger over the wire and tape it, or just tape it whichever works better for you. This will save you alot of time by using the coat hanger to get into hard to reach areas.

you will need speaker wire as well, i always use 12ga wire as its a nice free flowing cable but you can use smaller wire 14ga usually works just fine.

you may need connectors for your speaker wire, you might not, your amp will either have a round hole for the wire to go into or it will have a screw that holds a flat plate down, if its the kind with the screw you need connectors, 2 per section of wire ran to the amps.

do not forget sound deadner, I've heard very good things about Fatmat, you can find it on ebay very cheap, its better than dynamat, and alot cheaper. this will effectivly increase the output of your system at a fraction of the cost of an upgrade.

If you have power problems once its installed, like your lights dim or your system shuts off research an upgrade called THE BIG 3 it involves getting more voltage to the battery from the alternator, also this may be the time to upgrade your battery, when i switched from the factory gm battery to an optima redtop my system got louder.

You also must tune your system, invest in a good tester cd that has frequency tracks, you can use lower frequencies such as 40 and 50hz to tune the gain on your amp, you do not want to turn your gain more than half way up on most amps or it WILL blow your subs. www.the12volt.com has alot more info on these kinds of things and is a great resource, as it also has calculators to figure out box size and air space etc.

and my final little recommendation is to check out a website called Sonicelectronix.com they have some of the best prices on audio gear, are very helpful, ship fast and are authorized dealers for kicker,audiobahn,ma audio and bunch of others, they also tend to run at least 20 dollars cheaper on their gear and the shipping is reasonable.

Hopefully some of that is helpful

J~
Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:12 PM
wow...very thorough...thanks so much...so what's the deal with splitting the power cable? So like i could run 0 gauge wire to my trunk, and then that gets split? please explain. Also for sub box air requirements...are the box dimensions the mins? or like should i make it exactly the size it recommends? or is bigger fine too?

i was thinking of getting this amp wirring kit...it says it's for dual amps...what do u guys think?

http://www.cardomain.com/item/ROCCP4DCKR

for now i'm using the stock battery and alternator. Can i just buy 2 caps to make up for the power difference instead of a higher output alt, and a better battery?

TIA


Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Friday, January 13, 2006 6:15 AM
The power wire would get split via a distribution block. Be sure you get the size you need, they come in an array of different sizes. The 0 gauge would go into the distribution block and come out as smaller gauge wires such as 2-4, 4 or 8 gauge wires, or any combination of the 2.

Someone else would be better helping you with the box dimensions, although I would say that bigger would be fine.

Also, I don't think you are going to need 25 feet of power wire as previously stated. Most pre-made kits come with 17 feet which should be plenty if you are running to your trunk. I recently used 20 feet to run a power wire to the very rear of a 3 row durango with no problems.

A capacitor may not be a bad idea either, although if you search around there have been numerous discussions as to the value of adding one to your system. It will not technically "make up" for the power difference.




Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:37 AM
DON'T get a capacitor. Do the big 3 and get yourself a yellow top battery. You won't need a higher output alternator, your system isn't quite big enough yet.


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Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:40 PM
as said above do the big 3 upgrade

replace your stock battery with a red top or yellow top

if you plan to upgrade at a later date you might want to upgrade your alternator this one is 180 amps for $180



for the wire check out knukonceptz

you can get the wires in almost any color you want. for all the wires you need will cost aound $130 also i would use 4ga for both amps

KNF-12 KonFUSED 2 Way Distribution System with fuses $15
KND-23 KonFUSED Ground Distribution System $17.50
eKo-0BL eKo Kable 1/0 Power/Ground Cable 25ft $46.25
eKo-0PRL eKo Kable 1/0 Power/Ground Cable 3ft $5.55
eKo-4BL eKo Kable 4AWG Metallic Blue Power/Ground Cable 20ft $15.80
KAR2-6M Karma Kable 2 Channel RCA Kable 6M $13.50
KAR4-6M Karma Kable 4 Channel RCA Kable 6M $19.99

the olny thing your goin to need is the Battery Terminals that you can get from walmart kinda cheep and Speaker wire.




Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:48 PM
The purpose of splitting off of the larger cable was to provide and easier overall install, its much easier to run 1 big cable to the rear of your trunk than to try to feed 2 or 3 power wires and hide all the wiring and make it look clean. i agree in using 4ga wire to both amps, it is a better way of doing it and your amps will usually run cleaner, although for the power requirments 8ga would be just fine for the 4 channel, but 4 is deffinatly better.

there are alot of companies that sell stuff, quality is key and price doesnt always dictate quality. personally if i were going to run a 0ga power wire i would be using kickers power wire, the stuff is amazing 0ga wire can be tied in multiple knots like nobodies business and goes around,over,under and thru most things other wire will fight you with, it is a tad pricey but well worth it in the long run.

No you dont need a full 25 feet of wire HOWEVER, depending on how you route the wire thru the car to the trunk, or under the car to the trunk you will go around things, curve this way and that way, getting cable under interior panels requires extra room to work with, you'll probably be safe with 20 feet and have alittle extra, but it is MUCH nicer to have to much wire than to be half a foot short, plus in the future when you do the big 3 upgrade if you have extra wire left over from the install you can use 0ga wire in the big 3 upgrade.

I agree that at those levels an alternator is alittle overkill, but its all about how you want to do things, the big 3 will improve alot, a better battery will help more when combined with it.

lets have a quick little break down of why most people use caps and why some systems need them.

A cap is a storage unit for voltage, its like a giant battery that your electrical system charges and its only job is to hold this voltage until its needed, when your system hits a deep note or asks for more power the cap is there to provide more voltage for momentary voltage needs.

Its not a fix all solution for low voltage problems, its not a cure that will save you from buying batteries or doing the big 3 upgrade.

If you play your system extremely loud, only listen to deep bass tracks or do comps caps can help you gain alittle as even the best system cant keep up with higher end systems, at your level a single cap isnt a requirement but i see no reason why you can't use one, you might gain something, you might not. you can find cheaper caps that work just as well as higher end models shop around a bit if you decide you need one, STAY AWAY from digital caps, the digital readout pulls voltage away from your system that it could be using to play instead of displaying.

KnuKonceptz is an excellent place, great products and prices. also dont run your power wires next to your rca cables it can cause all kinds of noises to show up from cross talk between then cables, my installs always run the 2 as far away as possible, with the power wires on one side of the car and the rca cables on the other, havent had any problems yet.

Also check with sounddomain.com they have some neat little grounding solutions that are directly bolted to the metal panels in the trunk, like the floor and will accept a 0ga wire that you can then buy a distribution block for and you'll have a nice little grounding solution as well.


Also if you havent purchased anything yet check out Crutchfeild, right now they are having a buy one get one free sale on alot of their higher end subs....You can pick up 2 Kicker L5s for 249 which is a great value for 2 12" Kickers.

and they should be plently loud on a thousand watt amp. A far better idea is to take a trip around town before you buy anything and listen to some in store systems, see what subs sound like, see which ones you like more than others, in the end its your ears that need to be impressed not anybody elses .

J~
Re: What else do i need to install my system?
Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:34 PM
dont waste money on optima they arent any better than any other spiral core or dry cell battery there just hyped up because they had the money to advertise more, do your research on them compared to others like eliminator, interstate they are the same thing just different package, more money, i would go with 2 guage power wire off an inline wafer fuse(120amp), to the trunk, run it into a cap, off the cap with 2 guage to a distribution block that seperates into 4 guage, then to amps, ground cap with 2 guage, ground each amp with 4 guage to the body of car, run two sets of good quality rca's, to trunk, with door speaker wire (14 guage) and remote wire(18 guage), hook up crossovers for components in doors, then run wires to amp, you wont need battery in trunk, good luck
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