I want to make Brake booster Delete with Master Cylinder Wilwood. Master Cylinder with volume ratio 69% front and 31% rear it correct with the stock distributor (No ABS) ??? Front disk brake and rear drums.
if someone has already done this.. i need info
thank
Boost Lover
You could do it with a stock non-abs master and just change the pedal ratio. Thats what I did. It works great and costs basically nothing.
Dan
Currently on jackstands.
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan at clubhousecustoms dot com
How do you change the pedal ratio?
you simply move the point at which the acutator rod for the master cylinder attaches towards the pedal pivot point.
Its basic lever arm math.
Ill try to post of some pics of my manual brake setup this week.
Dan
Currently on jackstands.
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan at clubhousecustoms dot com
I told you in our PMs
the stock distribution is split between one front and the opposite rear wheel.
(front left, rear right = 1 circuit. front right, rear left = the other circuit)
if you want to use the stock distribution block you need a 50/50 volume split.
if you don't, you'll be putting more volume into one front and one rear wheel than in the other front and rear wheel.
the circuit with the stock distribution is an X, it isn't like the old school muscle cars with the fronts on one circuit and the rears on the other.
you need a 50/50 volume MC or you need to replumb the brake system. those are your options.
also, if you eliminate the booster you HAVE to change the pedal ratio or else it will be almost impossible to stop your car.
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:
also, if you eliminate the booster you HAVE to change the pedal ratio or else it will be almost impossible to stop your car.
This. Its rather hard to push the pedal down with no vac in the vac boost, so it'd be the same way as a manual with the same pedal ratio. Unless you went to a mc with a smaller bore and longer stroke, but then you might run out of pedal travel because you'd be hitting the floor.
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Sponsored by:
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For the safety of everyone else on the road, why do you want to do this?
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Less weight, takes up less room, more consistent pedal as there is no effect based on engine vacuum.
All win if you ask me.
Dan
Currently on jackstands.
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan at clubhousecustoms dot com
Viper98912 wrote:For the safety of everyone else on the road, why do you want to do this?
Huh? How does this affect the safety of other drivers? If anything, this would be safer in the event of a stall or shutdown, since it doesn't rely on vacuum power.
.
I want less scrap on my engine bay. No more vacuum drum of brake booster. I want to fix my Master cylinder direct on plate, plate fixed to firewall. I need place for my GT35R Intake on this side
and i want to keep my stock distributor if possible.
with your recommandation, i think y will buy master cylinder wilwood (like this 260-10376) for have 50/50 output volume ratio for keep my stock distributor. put a tee between the only output of MC wilwood and my stock distributor and change my pedal ratio. Shema :
this would work or there are factors that I thought not
and i want more info on how to change pedal ratio if it works on your side
JUICEDZ4
thank
Boost Lover
i don't know if a single output MC will have enough volume on its own for the entire system.
normally those MCs are used in twin MC setups that have a balance bar between them (ie. the wilwood brake pedal setups)
" if you eliminate the booster you HAVE to change the pedal ratio or else it will be almost impossible to stop your car."
J-bodies do not stop very well when the booster decides to not work. two feet on the pedal and it still wasnt enough.
on a side note, for completely missing the crash bar on the front, the structure held up quite well.
then... the simple solution is to keep the stock master cylinder and the stock distributor and just change the pedal ratio... make a custom push rod for stock MC and that it !
Boost Lover
if JUICEDZ4 made it and it works, I'll be able too
Boost Lover
Yep, thats basically what I did.
-Made a plate for the firewall to mount the master cylinder
-Drilled a new hole in the brake pedal arm to increase the ratio
-added a rod and rod for the new pushrod
-made some braces for the firewall (it flexed a bit more than I liked - I still have another brace to add to the strut bar to keep it from rotating)
I acutally am using a older camaro master cylinder. I think from a 92... :shrug: its been SO long.
Here are a few pics from the project. Its pretty straight forward really. Now, the plumbing is likely different between my P2 (non abs) and the P3 but its simple enough to reroute lines.
Dan
Currently on jackstands.
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan at clubhousecustoms dot com
so you have the pushrod just kind of sitting inside that rubber boot to push on the MC piston, or are they physically connected?
idk about the 2nd gen but the 3rd gen doesn't have a connection sticking out, just the piston with a little depression for the pushrod of the booster to sit in.
I didn't trust that and wanted an actual physical connection, which is why I went with a wilwood master cylinder.
Ditch the stock distro block for some tees. N body MCs have the ports on the driver side to make plumbing easier.
.
Did you use only one proportionning valve for your rear drums brake ??? in your picture, you do not use the stock distritutor or he is hiding
Boost Lover
Yoan Desaulniers wrote:Did you use only one proportionning valve for your rear drums brake ??? in your picture, you do not use the stock distritutor or he is hiding
you only need a single prop valve if you replumb the lines, because you would only use a single line to go to the rear.
the stock distribution (like I told you in our PMs) has two lines that go to the rear (one for the left and one for the right)
if you wanted to put a prop valve in, you need to use two because the distribution block has individual lines for each side.
did I waste my time answering your PMs? You're asking questions I've already answered.
diagram:
my system:
under the hood
metering valve for the front (also acts as a tee)
rear of the system.. rear line into residual pressure valve, into prop valve, out of prop valve into brass tee
under the hood from farther away
close up of residual and prop valves
I am converting to a reverse swing wilwood brake pedal, mounting twin MCs with a balance bar under the dash, remote reservoirs, and that will completely eliminate any intrusion into the engine bay (and give me more flexibility with bore sizes then a tandem MC would).
the reverse swing setup (assuming it will fit) would also allow you to utilize the stock distribution block if you wanted since both MCs can have the same volume reservoirs.
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:so you have the pushrod just kind of sitting inside that rubber boot to push on the MC piston, or are they physically connected?
idk about the 2nd gen but the 3rd gen doesn't have a connection sticking out, just the piston with a little depression for the pushrod of the booster to sit in.
I didn't trust that and wanted an actual physical connection, which is why I went with a wilwood master cylinder.
2nd gen is the same. I have the pedal stop to insure it doesnt fall out, as well as the boot. The pedal can not physically move away from the master more than necessary so there is no chance of it falling out. The rubber boot is more of a secondary method, just in case.
I originally wanted to do a wilwood dual setup with the balance bar etc (I acually had a full set but it stil would have stuck too far into the engine bay). I thought of doing a reverse swing setup, but I just didnt see where there would be room under the dash with the position of the steering rack high on the firewall in the 2nd gen. The column just takes up so much room.
Your setup looks good.
One thing I wish I did, and you could probably acutaly do easier as you only have one line going to the back whereas I have two, is to mount the prop valve inside between the seat and the door. It would make the adjustments much simpler.
Dan
Currently on jackstands.
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan at clubhousecustoms dot com
PJ- did you ever throw a gauge on your rear lines after the proportioning valve? I'm curious to know just how much reduction you're getting in pressure. I have a gauge on mine, and I only see a few hundred PSI change from full on to full off.
DaFlyinSkwirl thank you. And no you do not waste your time. I understood your setup by PM's and reading your post. Thank you for all your explanations and your time ... we need more people like you. My last question, however, was to JUICEDZ4 about his setup but now, i know how his setup work (proportioning valve with stock line etc..,)
thank you everyone !
i will post some pics of my brake booster delete projet soon
Boost Lover
James Cahill wrote:PJ- did you ever throw a gauge on your rear lines after the proportioning valve? I'm curious to know just how much reduction you're getting in pressure. I have a gauge on mine, and I only see a few hundred PSI change from full on to full off.
no, i never did. I haven't gotten to dialing in the brakes just yet since I haven't tuned the car. All I do know is that the car stops akin to stock, but I haven't pushed the brakes just yet.. planned on doing it out by feel.
