Hi all!!
Hello peoples.
In the past few weeks, Ive been looking about for a cheap non Honda/Toyota/Nissan project compact car for me to tinker on. Im not new to the auto world, and I know a thing or two about race car set up.. And Ill tell ya. Here in Northern California everyone and their mother has a lowered, blinged out Honda, or Toyota. Indivuality is just an idea. So, with that in mind, Ive set out to find an old 1980's Cavalier/Sunbird.
which, as of now, I havent found one thats selling for more then 600 dollars running YET... I like that.. CHEAP. Have I bought one? No. Not yet. Im holding out for that perfect looking pre 88.
Anyways, Im planning out some mods id like to do, and I realize that the older Cavaliers don't have any thing resembling good aftermarket support... So im going to make a "Junk yard hot rod".. (As it was MEANT to be)
Anyways. How close is the Chevrolet Citation (H-car??) to the Gen 1 J-car? Has anyone done any parts swapping from these two bodies? (Namely the brakes, struts, etc) And Fiero? (2.8FI motor and Transaxle.. way better gear ratios.. in the 5 speed anyways) Or are the Gen II Z-24 Cavaliers brakes and struts any diffrent (bigger) then the older standard strip down Gen 1's?
Thanks all. I know thats alot of questions.. And Ive been looking around the internet for a while trying to get info together...
Oh BTW.. incase anyone cares. I drive an 87 Jeep Cherokee as of now
Welcome to the .org!
Citations were X-body cars, and I'm not sure what all swaps over. A little bigger platform, more closely related to the A body cars (Celebrity, Ciera, Century) I think.
As far as brakes go, I could be wrong but 92-94's got bigger fronts (right?) but rears were unchanged. Maybe someone from the second gen forum can confirm this.
I hope you can find a solid 1st gen out there, Lord knows its hard nowadays. Most of the ones that pop up for sale are ragged out cars that used to be hot back in like...1990.
Good luck with your search and keep us posted!
-Daryl Scott
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Welcome hope you find something that is with in reason of bringing back to LIFE.IF it's not running start from scratch and rebuild that engine and go from there if the body and interior are pretty decent.Good luck on ur search for ur first gen project.
Thanks!... My friends often poke fun at what they see as a "wierd taste" in cars.
I guess there is only one way to truely find out. And thats to try it. Ill keep a database of what I find as I start swapping in parts I guess....
Wish me luck guys!!!!
the 92+ front brakes are bigger (10" opposed to 9.5). all the suspention parts from a 2nd gen will bolt right into a first gen, so there are aftermarket spring, shocks, poly bushings, brake parts, ect.
in 87, the cavy and cimmeron got the gen 2 2.8l engine, meaning that aan engine swap like a 3400 is no harder than it is in a second gen. for about $1000, you can have 180hp with a weekend of work. (any other 1st gen would require some re-wiring, and take a bit longer and is a bit more tedious). if you get a sunbird or firenza, find a gt, it would have the turbo 1.8 (up to 86) or 2.0l (86+) that has around 155hp, and is easily upgraded. the engine is very strong internaly, and will take some pretty high boost. of coarse, bigger turbos, intercoolers, boost controllers, and all the turbo goodies will work on this car, and you can make it insanly fast.
interior in parts can be swapped from and 1st/2nd gen (with the exception of some trim pannels), so this makes it easy for customizing. there is all the generic interior mods, racing seats, shift knobs, steering wheels, ect that can go into it.
as for body mods, this is were there isnt a ton you can do without lots of custom. and 1st gen front end will interchange, as long as you do the whole front clip (fenders, hood, bumper, header pannel, ect) and this can give you a total weird look. another thing you can do is a 2nd gen front clip, however, this requires a bit of modding. side skirts from a 2nd gen phase 1 will bolt right on.
my personal favorite cars for front end swaps is the "92" hatch. its a 1st gen hatch, phase 2 front, rear bumper and skirts, wheels, and full interior, with a 3.1l 5 speed. if you didnt know better, you would think this was a factory car. the other car is the 1st gen coupe with 2nd gen front, z3 fenders and diza kit.
Thanks for the info!
Am I also correct in the assumption that the Fiero and 1st gen cavalier shares the same engine/tranny with diffrent levels of tune? It seems only logical to me that the two models would share common engine tranny combo. albiet in diff engine cradles. ?
the transmision is the same (the v6 used the muncie 4 speed and in 87-88 the muncie/gretrag 5 speed, but they used different mounts). the 85 and 86 v6 j used the same basic motor (ironhead 2.8l) however, the timing cover, lower middle and upper intake is all j-car specific (i spent months searching for that stuff for my project motor). the ho 2.8l in the fiero is higher compression and a different cam, bumping it up 20hp. the fiero also uses a map sensor ecm instead of the maf on the j.
cool. I keep hereing here and there that Isuzu I mark turbo 5 speeds are interchangable with the 4 and 6 cyl early J. Is there any truth to this? The info Im getting here is great! Its helping me make a clear picture of what Im doing to be doing.
the isuzu 5 speed was never used behind the turbo 1.8 or 2.0l, it was a getrag. i guess gm thought the isuzu was to weak. the ohc motors also have their own bellhousing bolt pattern unique to themselves, so they arent interchangable with anything.
hi,
another newbie here.
How about swapping the Cavalier 1983 2.0 OHV engine to 2.8? Did I get it right that in principal you can bolt it in but it needs serious re-wiring? Please, sharkey, can you tell more about it. How about transmission, suspension, brakes etc.? And what do you mean with J-body specific timing cover, lower middle and upper intake in my case?
im not sure, but the front mount may be a bit different on 82-83 cars (im not sure on this, something i read). a better bet would be just to go with a 3.1l for a simple bolt in instead of the 2.8l. 87 + 2.8 and 3.1l are pretty much a bolt in, but your best bet would be to find a complete donor car. you need to change the transmission, axles, rad, wiring, ecm, ect.
when i was talking about the j-car specific engine parts, i was reffering to the 85 1/2-86 cast iron head 2.8l (the motor i have). if you use an 87+ v6 you wont have to worry about any of that.
Ok. Thanks for information. So it might be a little difficult operation. We don't have so much these donor cars in Finland..
Janne... you can eliminate the donor vehicle problem by swapping in a Vauxhall / Opel C20Let/Xe engine transmission. 2.0 liters or 2.2 with the Daewoo/ Isuzu engine swap. Your choice of 8V or 16V, Webers, injection or turbo charged.
Alan
I found myself with the same in toronto, Canada. Just happened to be given an '85 wagon.
Consider one of these and using the side body frames from a 2 door. You would need both bodies of course, but you could end up with a pretty slick sedan delivery don't ya think?
Brian
