like the title says i have a 86 2.0 auto wagon and it has developed a cold start issue. let me explain:

the engine was rebuilt about 6k miles ago. it was broken in properly. everything on the engine was replaced as it should have been with a typical rebuild. however, in the last month it has developed a problem with starting when it is cold. it started with just having to pump the gas pedal a few times to get it to fire when it is really cold out. then it slowly became worse. having to constantly pump the gas til it would start. now it will not start at all if it is very cold or has been sitting for a day or two. once it is started it runs perfectly fine and has zero issues. also it will have no problems starting again if it is driven somewhere allowed to warm up and then parked cooled and then started again.

i replaced the coolant temp sensor, thermostat, plugs (cause they were fouled from all that attempted starting while pumping the gas) but none of that helped. after this i was stumped so took the car to a local shop that had rebuilt the engine. they claimed it was the throttle body assembly and repalced it with a used one. this fixed the issue for about a week and then it developed the same problem again. i had a random idea to do a coolant flush (mainly cause the coolant was pretty dirty) and that resolved the issue for about another week now it refuses to start when it is under 50 degrees or so. i refuse to take it to a shop again and am certain it is something simple that i am missing. (i am mechanically inclined im just used to imports anddont have alot of experiencce working on these older j body cars.) any help or advice would be appreciated.

thanks in advance.

Have you done a psi check for fuel.Your car should run 9-13psi and while your car does not have a scrader valve a adaptor can be installed to this.I can later link where to buy this and leave it on there permanent.Now just reading over,over seems spark is ok,because it is firing.In thought just having to pump the pedal points to fuel pump,OR the fuel pump relay.I could suggest replacing several things like ICM under distributor,but doubt this comes into play.Also do you have your pre heater plug from the tbi hooked up.This ties into the electrical for voltage to keep the tbi from icing and on recall can't remember where it plugs(duh on my part).While this should not play into the factor just a thought.Do the psi fuel check and replace the fuel filter if you have not already.I do not want to list tons right now.Just let us know if you did this check yet,and we can approach this from a different angle.Unless your coil or ignition control mod and getting weak and your just flooding it until it sparks.The electrical stuff can be spontanious and create this aside from the pedal pump.Ok

First off thanks for the extremely helpful reply. i guess ill start from the begining

Im fairly certain that the fuel pressure is whithin spec for the car it was checked when the car was in the shop for the throttle body assembly. i changed the fuel filter before the car was taken to the shop so we can rule that out.

Im not really certain about the pre heater for the throttle body but i assume that it is functioning or was judging by the car having no cold start problems when the throttle body assembly was replaced. its kind of odd cause it seems like it got worse to the point of not starting at all in the cold like before after the throttle body was replaced.

im kinda starting to gravitate toward what you stated that it could be something electrical. the car is definately getting plenty of fuel. judging by the way it doesnt seem to have a problem when driving and everything fuel related was inspected and checked out ok at the shop. the car gets plenty of fuel to the point of it obvioulsy fouling the plugs after continuing to press the gas trying to get it to start..

i hope this reply has helped narrow it down for you somewhat

thanks for the help

Ok fuel seems good.My thoughts are leaning towards the ICM under distributor and or coil.Being both can be affected by temp malfunction.I will think on it,and unless some of the regulars chime in on wed I am sure some good ideas will fix this with ease.I am very fluent with the jbody stuff just a touch tired and losing focus being super late.Ok and welcome to the site being your well NEW.

I agree on the coil or icm being the culprit. i dont think either was replaced when the engine was rebuilt. im fairly sure the shop "borrowed" the distributor and a few other components from the original engine. i will give that a try. they arent very expensive and it cant hurt anything to be replaced. i look forward to resolving this and getting it reliable again.

Once again thank you for your help. i appreciate your helpful and quick response.

Do the TBI cars have an Idle Air Control (IAC) sensor? I had this same situation on my 97 Voyager and that is what it was.

Just a Thought...

UPDATE: i went out to try and crank the car today it was about 50 degrees outside. the motor turned over for about 5 sec then started. it sputtered a little for a few sec then ran fine. no miss no anything. i drove the car a few miles and it runs fine. however the check engine light came on for probably 5 sec or so and then turned off?? hasnt been doing that. it has also developed this nice little clunk when turning right while braking or turning right and going over a bump or dip in the road. but thats not my biggest concern right now.

dont know if this info helps but thought i would post it anyway. still thinking as ron has said that it is something electrical in nature... we will see..

see if you have any trouble codes stored in your computer. if the check engine light went on there should be some codes stored in the memory even if the light went out. it might help steer you in the right direction. just throwing parts at it is costly. if you dont know how to retrirve the codes without a scanner i can post the procedure. i'm betting it is something very simple though like egr valve or IAC.

that little clunking is probably a sway bar link. i just had one break on my lesabre, 8 bucks

Here is a link to a how to for trouble codes on our cars.

http://www.v6z24.com/howto/codes

Courtesy of the V6Z24 guys.


I have one of these code readers from back in the day, but the above procedure works just as good.

Thanks for posting the procedure for checking trouble codes I will do this tomorrow. Who knows how many are stored there my fiancé drive the car for months before me and doesn't seem to care about the car at all.

I will post the results.

Thanks again for the help.

If you hit a problem and need me to come over to winston with my real nice actron scanner with a lcd display it gives real time data and will pop the codes active up on the screen.It probably want happen unless you fix it first,or maybe if still the issue next wk I can arrange to meet with you and bring my computer to see what the heck it is.Ok

Thanks
I should not have a problem retrieving the codes the process seems pretty straightforward. I have to work tomorrow but I should have more time to work on it this Friday and the weekend. I hope to have it solved by then. If not i would be happy to get any help I can get.

UPDATE: i read the trouble codes on the car today before work and got 4 codes:

13- oxygen sensor circuit

14 - coolant sensor circuit (i have reason to believe this code is quite old and was stored when my fiance was driving the car. i replaced the coolant temp sensor a few weeks ago)

15 - coolant sensor circuit (low tempearture indicated)

44 - lean exhaust

Hope this helps.

thanks.

so after reading the codes im not to worried aboutthe coolant sensor circuit since i replaced that sensor with a new one a few weeks ago. the oxygen sensor has been checked all the wiring is good so im assuming the sensor is bad. planning on picking one up since its only about $10. im assuming the lean exhaust has alot to do with the oxygen sensor. i dont have any vaccum leaks or any other noticable idle or fuel problems.

however, obviously the oxygen sensor or the lean exhaust is not the source of my cold start problem. the lean exhaust code (code 44) is only sent after the ECM is out of closed loop and the car reaches operating tempearture and it doesnt recieve a proper voltage from the oxygen sensor. i still have the theroey that it is something ignition related such as the icm or coil as ron stated earlier. i guess i can give that a shot along with the oxygen sensor to see how the car runs after those parts are installed. unless anyone else has any other suggestions of an alternative or these codes indicating another problem...

as always thanks for all your help.

I would do two things.Replace the O2 sensor as said and disconnect the battery for at least two minutes to clear that hard set code for coolant temp.Just replacing the sender will not clear the ecm.Do the cables neg unhook 1st so it clears the lean code.The 13/44 are really the same on our cars bc only 1 O2 sensor and kind of stupid but I am just trying to recover from one heck of a virus infection so bare with me.One cortizone shot and a Z pac and been hurting the last 2.5 days why I did not come online.I am trying to get the info straight,and if off it is bc I am still dragging this crap sinus headaches suck!!!! It has backed off but da-- my gosh not enuff aspirin on the planet.

i forgot to mention that i also found out that the throttle body has a pretty bad leak around the base of the throttle body. (when i say bad leak there is gas pooling on the intake manifold) it looks like the shop just reused the gasket when the replaced the throttle body. so im replacing that and the oxygen sensor. im ordering both the sensor and gasket from rockauto. i refuse to pay almost $30 for a gasket and sensor at advance.

i'm going to bet you just found your starting problem. by the way i think i would find another repair shop, that one seems to be a little sloppy. i have found with these older cars that most shops just dont have the personel with the knowledge about them. most techs are barely older than the cars. theyalso dont have the time to do the research as time is money. the only time i take my car in now is if i dont have the tools or equipment . with the wealth of info on here and on the web i feel i can tackle just about anything now. a good set of manuals also helps.

i completely agree on the shop. im never taking anything of mine there again. i think they just got tired of the car and just wanted to get it out of the way. that was the third time i took it back because of issues after the engine was rebuilt. ive noticed other issues like the valve cover gasket and the pcv valve are leaking already. an inexpensive fix but insane after we gave $1200 to rebuild the engine a year ago. that was with the entire bottom end of the engine already assembled. they just had to send off the head and reassemble everything. i guess it wasnt worthy or their time or something. anyway thought i would put a few pics up showing the leaks and a very frayed kickdown cable.

You know a tbi is so easy to do.And they clearly reused a crushed new gasket thinking it would seal seriously.I have already done mine and intake gasket and etc and not that hard.Idk how long the cable will last frayed out wires as they are.If it were me I would probably get a used one(yeah I know again) and clean,rebuild,and do it right.Most shops are just more in the today stuff and our 80s stuff is archaic explaining the half --s work they did on your ride.

i definately learned my lesson to do it myself from now on. at the time i didnt have a choice and had to take it to a shop and trusted them to do a good job. obviously from the looks of the pcv valve and valve cover already leaking and reusing the throttle body gasket i will never do business with them again. they didnt even tighten one of the fuel lines tight. i can pretty much remove it from the throttle body by hand. its pathedic. i dont plan on driving the car until the cable is replaced i dont want to risk getting stranded. since this is our second car i will probably buy a rebuild kit for the throttle body and just rebuild it. along with replacing the cable and the oxygen sensor.

this is why i dont like taking anything i own to a shop anymore. you just cant trust it. if you want something done right you have to do it yourself it seems.

I thought i would put a update on this instead of making a new thread. i started to replace a few things on the cavalier today. (valve cover gasket, pcv grommet, new kickdown cable, and also removed the throttle body to rebuild it whenever my kit comes in.) apparently the idiots who put the motor together decided to take a few shortcuts. it turns out instead of ordering gaskets for the thermostat housing and the valve cover they just used form a gasket. which explains the horrible leak coming from the valve cover. Also, like i suspected the reused the throttle body gasket. Didnt even use a hose clamp on the pcv hose along with some of the other hoses around the throttle body. its just all very sloppy. some of the bolts were almost finger tight. it wasnt my decision to take the car to that particular shop cause i doubted their workmanship but it was out of my hands. now that this car is in my posession its not going to be worked on by anyone but me. at least i know it will be done correctly.

its kind of funny cause i applied for a job at that particular shop back before i knew about their sloppy work and they wouldnt hire me. but they will hire idiots that will do this?

anyway here is some random pics.

very leaky throttle body base



who needs gaskets right?


i think it was time to change that cable


throttle body is out

That is the primary reason I will not let a shop touch my car.Not saying all shops run that way,but our cars they do actually require knowing something that is dated and yet simple and do it right.In time you will fix the wrong done,and the more you learn about this car and the common issues it will be a cake walk.I still learn on my ride each time I update things on restoring and taking my time to do it pays for itself.

Well put Ron. I learned a lot today just messing aroun with it and I was very surprised how easy everything came apart. I had the throttle body ready to come off in about 15min.

By the way what is a good cleaner for the throttle body when I disassemble it for the rebuild?

You can soak it in a product called evapo rust works wonders on aluminum.Or if you just use some crc throttle body cleaner and use a tooth brush works.Carb cleaner will work to.Being off the car and sensors removed just clean it up,brake cleaner will do wonders to remove the greasy mess to and dry quick.By the time you use new gaskets and get the base really clean on the intake and go to bolt it back on it will be like new.I just hand tighten things no torque wrench just a good firm tight.Do this equally so you compress the gasket even.