I dont know if anyone saw my post in the racing forum but I went to the track friday night my best run was as follows
R/T .636
60' 2.343
330 6.761
1/8 10.413
mph 68.21
1000 13.590
1/4 16.307
mph 83.82
Id like to start by saying that it is a fully loaded Z24, I left my subs in, and Im quite a heavy fella. Not that im blaming it on that but every 100lbs supposedly takes a 10th so I know the car could run a few 10ths faster without the stereo and a driver thats like 200lbs less than me.
My setup is
96-98 PnP head with SS over sized valves
01 bottom end
2.3 cams with 210 duration@ 50 and .340I/.350E lift
HO pulley
old style 2.3 equal length runner intake manifold w/stock tb and warm air intake, port matched to head
Bill and stans 4-2-1 header
full 3 inch exhaust
lowered on prokit with agx's fronts set soft and rears set stiff
auto trans with Yank converter set to shift at 6000
BFG G-force T/A tires
Street tuned with 12.8-1 AFR's
Now I wasnt expecting too much but low 15's were what I was thinking. I know I need to work on my launch to get the 60' down. The car has no lack of low end torque btw, didnt want to keep traction at all no matter how I tries to launch. I didnt scald my tired in the burn out box, just a spin like Ive read to do.
I have seen stock Z's run better times than this. The car feels like its hauling so Idk whats up. I chose the header/intake manifold/cams to promote midrange torque. Could the intake manifold be that restrictive? I know it supposedly looses power around 5800rpm but the car feels like its still pulling til 6000rpm then it falls on its face. I have an HO manifold setup to work with a 4.3 vortech throttle body I'm considering throwing on and try.
The 3 inch exhaust didnt hurt my stock engine so I dont think that is the deal breaker.
What are everyones tips or thoughts? Suggestions/Ideas?
HELP
First N/A auto's are hard to get to perform well at the track. My buddy did pull a 15.4 n/a in his with XX5 cams and intake, TB, header.
I think your shifting to low on the tranny. 60 foots need to come down also. When I ran a 14.9 n/a I had to launch at 3500 RPM's.
FU Tuning
i found your problem:
My setup is
96-98 PnP head with SS over sized valves
01 bottom end
2.3 cams with 210 duration@ 50 and .340I/.350E lift
HO pulley
old style 2.3 equal length runner intake manifold w/stock tb and warm air intake, port matched to head
Bill and stans 4-2-1 header
full 3 inch exhaust
lowered on prokit with agx's fronts set soft and rears set stiff
auto trans with Yank converter set to shift at 6000
BFG G-force T/A tires
Street tuned with 12.8-1 AFR's
first off your running those baby sized cams
next your running that ridiculous intake manifold that GM did away with right away.
3 inch exhaust on a car your trying to make midrange power? for real?
auto trans... nuff said.
here is your fix:
at minimum go with secret cams
run the newer style HO manifold with the 2.3 56mm T/B
2.5 inch exhaust
as for the time slip, your sixty foot is holding you back.
^^he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I already have an HO intake to install that is setup with a 70mm throttle body. And I do have some secret cams but if I'm going to do that work ill wait til I have some HO's or W41's. The 3 inch was on the car before the build n will stay on the car for my future build, besides pj ran the times he did n/a with 3inch exhaust.
It was an effort for a torquey DD engine and to try different things.
Thanks for the advice, your confirming what was already in my head.
I ran a 15.7 with my 4 door family sedan it had secret cams, intake, full exhaust, motor mounts and an auto trans.....
I'm really leaning toward the intake manifold more than anything. The 2.3 the intake and cams came on produced 10 more Hp than the LO 2.3 so I want to change the intake manifold n give the car another run before I mess with the cams I think. I knew it wouldn't be a high reving engine but I really did not think it'd suck this bad.
I was only gonna say the manifold and the 3" exhaust has to go.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
dude your car has so much top end modification and youre shifting at 6? I'd shift at at least 7, I bet youre still making power at 6q
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
Its gotta be the intake manifold, it falls on its face at 6200, like no power.
Zs Z wrote:I already have an HO intake to install that is setup with a 70mm throttle body. And I do have some secret cams but if I'm going to do that work ill wait til I have some HO's or W41's. The 3 inch was on the car before the build n will stay on the car for my future build, besides pj ran the times he did n/a with 3inch exhaust.
It was an effort for a torquey DD engine and to try different things.
Thanks for the advice, your confirming what was already in my head.
first of all you can in no way compare your motor setup to pj's. thats foolish. different motors to start with, he was running a much higher lift cam with more duration, revving much higher. he may have had 3 inch exhaust but since he was revving much higher he was moving more air quicker, hence he saw results with a 3 inch exhaust. for your motor you are trying to make power at a much lower rpm band, the smaller exhaust will help you because of your location in powerband. I run W41 cams and the car is still very torquey everywhere, i drive hondas all the time and the lack of torque is huge in comparison to my car. HO cams are still not an extreme set of cams, they are not comparable to aftermarket grinds other platforms can get where there would be an issue of a loss of torque.
not trying to sell out here or talk you into something u dont need but i do have a set of HO cams, towers, and lifters laying around, pm me if interested.
I'm not compairing mine to pj's in anyway. However his was a torquey engine that didn't have huge hp numbers. I remeber his dyno numbers. The triflows he had aren't exaclty big cams either. And I understand the theory behind exhaust, just don't want to change it out when I know a more extreme engine will live there.
Don't get me wrong I appereciate your opinion. And thanks for the offer about the cams.
I don't know much about the ld9 but I've heard those old equal length intake manifolds are junk.
Also, you 3" exhaust is not hurting you, people assume it will hurt you low end power but they are wrong.
My car with the cut-out open flows way more air than a full 3" exhaust and it only made less hp and tq with it open under 2000rpm.
So going to a 2.5 exhaust will make less power.
Why are you guys thinking the 3 inch is hurting him? He's frickin racing, the low end matters for less than 1 second of the whole run, and having a wimpy low end can actually help your 1/4 times (less wheel spin from @!#$ty drivers). Lets face it, the slush box wasn't helping, the weight wasnt helping. BUT based on your trap speed I would guess that your car is putting down less than or the same as the stock peak power.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
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WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
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Quote:
it falls on its face at 6200, like no power
You have to keep in mind where the RPM's are droping after the shift. I think 6k is way too earlier, regardless of the pwer dropping off after 6200, you have to keep in mind of dropping out of the powerband.
FU Tuning
well... where to start? id say gary pretty much covered everything. (and gary, i agree so much on the fact our cams are tiny compared to others. our heads and valves are puny too, even the 2.3 stuff. we need port work, cams, and breathing mods. end of story.)
but, it would help to know your elevation and DA at time of the race. i dont exactly know where MD is so im just guessing on the elevation but i do know that ztowenty4door guy lives in texas (says in his profile) so dont compare ur times to his, he is pretty much at sea level.
for the poor 60's... a 2.3 isnt that bad for an auto that isnt making a ton of power, although... i do still think you could pull a 2.2 easily. what air pressure were ur rear tires at? fronts? are you power braking at the start or just punching it? what suspension are you running?
whats the car weigh with you in it?
realistically man i am impressed, a 16.3 with an auto and that junk intake? you couldnt possibly have expected much. lol i know you ran ur track GPS thingy on ur phone or whatever and ran good times but those things arent always accurate so dont beat urself up. i hate to say it but in reality you just showed everyone that doing the old school 2.3 stuff is about comparable to a stock LD9. you did ur part, you got to see if it worked. it didnt, so now its time to put back on the big parts.
and with everyone i talk to about racing... its all about practice. practice makes perfect and realistically you could run a 16.1 with this setup, maybe even break into the 15's if you just kept trying and trying. but youve got to ask urself... do i wanna run 15's?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, October 24, 2010 8:06 AM
Underdog Racing
I think the auto trans is beating up on you quite a bit. Best I could think of for auto trans guys going the same direction in engine mods as you was James (misnblu) http://www.j-body.org/members/misnblu2/cars/1/. He's only put down a 15.6, and hes got quite a bit in suspension mods (not sure how much those help for 1/4 tho). At least it gives you an idea what someone else has to give you a direction.
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:Quote:
it falls on its face at 6200, like no power
You have to keep in mind where the RPM's are droping after the shift. I think 6k is way too earlier, regardless of the pwer dropping off after 6200, you have to keep in mind of dropping out of the powerband.
Once I change the intake manifold I will up the shift points. I get what your saying though, the higher is shift the higher rpm it will be when it goes into the next gear. When I say falls on its face I mean feels like im at quarter throttle not going anywhere falls on its face. So with that setup i really believe it hurts less to shift earlier lol.
z yaaaa wrote:well... where to start? id say gary pretty much covered everything. (and gary, i agree so much on the fact our cams are tiny compared to others. our heads and valves are puny too, even the 2.3 stuff. we need port work, cams, and breathing mods. end of story.)
but, it would help to know your elevation and DA at time of the race. i dont exactly know where MD is so im just guessing on the elevation but i do know that ztowenty4door guy lives in texas (says in his profile) so dont compare ur times to his, he is pretty much at sea level.
for the poor 60's... a 2.3 isnt that bad for an auto that isnt making a ton of power, although... i do still think you could pull a 2.2 easily. what air pressure were ur rear tires at? fronts? are you power braking at the start or just punching it? what suspension are you running?
whats the car weigh with you in it?
realistically man i am impressed, a 16.3 with an auto and that junk intake? you couldnt possibly have expected much. lol i know you ran ur track GPS thingy on ur phone or whatever and ran good times but those things arent always accurate so dont beat urself up. i hate to say it but in reality you just showed everyone that doing the old school 2.3 stuff is about comparable to a stock LD9. you did ur part, you got to see if it worked. it didnt, so now its time to put back on the big parts.
and with everyone i talk to about racing... its all about practice. practice makes perfect and realistically you could run a 16.1 with this setup, maybe even break into the 15's if you just kept trying and trying. but youve got to ask urself... do i wanna run 15's?
The part of MD I live in is pretty much sea level, I live on an island in the bay and the track is only about 30 minutes away. Im not sure about the air pressure because I forgot to bring my pressure gauge with me. I tried power braking and just punching it. I ran 6 times and tried several different ways. My best 60' time was when I power braked at like 1700 rpm then half throttle when the light turned green and punched it once I moved a few feet. The tires still chirped but didnt burn like a full power brake or even just punching it. I do need more practice. As for suspension Im running eibach prokit with agx's....fronts set to soft and rears set to stiff. Im not sure about the weight.
Im am glad I finally prooved the intake manifold atleast is junk...and possibly the cams. we will know about the cams the next trip to the track when I install the HO manifold. With this engine I will be happy with mid 15's since it will be going in my DD and possibly turboed. This setup was experimental anyways....my other engine build involves more tired and true methods with a few extra goodies.
i think you did good considering you have the smallest cams and that goofy intake mani GM made. like zyaa said, practice. i bet you could do better.
i've ran 15.8 @ 88mph
secret cams, HO mani w/ 2.3 tb, full exhaust, and a real bad slippin tansmission
if it wasn't for the tranny i bet i could run atleast a 15.5
but keep up the good work and show us a better time
Change the intake manifold and run again....
Shift around 6500....
that is all.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
youve got alot more work done to your car than mine does, im sure you can net a better time. your starting to think in the right direction here with your shifts. your cams have bumper the peak power up alot higher than stock, so 6k is not going to cut it anymore.
my suggestion, get the car on a dyno and run the snot out of it. it will tell you where your peak power is. set your up@!#$s to happen when power starts to drop off and hopefully drop you right in where your car starts to produce power again.
before doing anything like that though, get your tune dialed in right and make sure everything is good and working together. nothing like blowing up on the dyno....
I wouldn't feel too bad. I bested a 16.4 with everything I had done (sans the ms-II) my first and only time out at the track. I tried "manual" shifting and auto, but neither helped. The 4t40e is just plain garbage for our N/A engines.
I have no signiture
Whalesac wrote:I wouldn't feel too bad. I bested a 16.4 with everything I had done (sans the ms-II) my first and only time out at the track. I tried "manual" shifting and auto, but neither helped. The 4t40e is just plain garbage for our N/A engines.
responses like this make me want to build a crazy quick auto. lets see what my next purchase brings me...
the issue with this cars times is not the auto transmission, its the setup. a cam and motor setup like this needs to rev high to produce power.
im not going to lie to you and say the auto is better than 5 speeds. the 4t40 is not as bad as people might think.
Build an auto that crazy quick at that auto-x, then you've got an accomplishment going.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
